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  1. #1
    Player
    ForteNightshade's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    3,648
    Character
    Kurenai Tenshi
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Teraluna View Post
    SE don't change things on the feedback of one person, or even a few people. But they do listen to majorities.
    We have just seen that with cutting Ultima in favour of majority content, in the changes to DR after significant feedback, with the increase in relic item drop rates for the same reason.
    They will also look at their metrics, of player numbers, of class outputs.
    Bard would like a word with you about this. They were unanimously the most popular DPS in the game last expansion yet their entire identity was gutted for no other reason than more casual players didn't understand how it functioned. Said players were not even the majority as, again, Bard was immensely popular. Now it's nearly the least played job. Dark Knights have been complaining about Living Dead for years yet no changes. It took players literally refusing to play Monk for the dev team to finally listen. I could go on but time and again, the dev team hasn't listened. Or they go from one extreme to the other.

    As for the rest. They haven't made any adjustments to DR whatsoever and the Castrum drop rates were only buffed because literally no one was doing it.
    (14)
    Last edited by ForteNightshade; 03-06-2021 at 08:20 AM.
    "Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters."
    "The silence is your answer."


  2. #2
    Player
    Mansion's Avatar
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    Aug 2018
    Location
    Gridania
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    1,986
    Character
    Mansion Viscera
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    Bard would like a word with you about this. They were unanimously they most popular DPS in the entire game last expansion yet their entire identity was gutted for no other reason than more casual players didn't understand how it functioned.
    I'm more inclined to say "because they added dancer". Bard was performing so well in late Stormblood that a form of nerf was expected (Crit scaling, DRG synergy). But it was still very popular in a more casual approach I believe.
    If anything, adding a new healer job is a bit worrying for me, because it might lead to another identity gutting for the sake of "balance".
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    Teraluna's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    662
    Character
    Tera Luna
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    Bard would like a word with you about this. They were unanimously they most popular DPS in the entire game last expansion yet their entire identity was gutted for no other reason than more casual players didn't understand how it functioned. Said players were not even the majority as, again, Bard was immensely popular. Now it's nearly the least played job. Dark Knights have been complaining about Living Dead for years yet no changes. It took players literally refusing to play Monk for the dev team to finally listen. I could go on but time and again, the dev team hasn't listened. Or they go from one extreme to the other.

    As for the rest. They haven't made any adjustments to DR whatsoever and the Castrum drop rates were only buffed because literally no one was doing it.
    I suggest the overall goal of the development team in regard to classes is to aim for as even a spread as possible. Now a level playing number across all classes is a Utopian condition, whilst also having to contend with the playing styles of different geographical regions.
    If the likes of Ast where seen to be at the lower end, then changes could be expected, and that of course is what happened. Similarly, if one or two classes are shown to be outstripping others in terms of player numbers, expect the same.
    Now before people jump in, the devs don't always get these adjustments exactly right. I'd expect more adjustments of classes with 6.0 (on top of the announced healer adjustments to accommodate Sage).
    Then further tweaks as the new expansion pans out.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Recon1o6's Avatar
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    Sep 2016
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    1,296
    Character
    Avarnia Corthal
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Teraluna View Post
    I suggest the overall goal of the development team in regard to classes is to aim for as even a spread as possible. Now a level playing number across all classes is a Utopian condition, whilst also having to contend with the playing styles of different geographical regions.
    If the likes of Ast where seen to be at the lower end, then changes could be expected, and that of course is what happened. Similarly, if one or two classes are shown to be outstripping others in terms of player numbers, expect the same.
    Now before people jump in, the devs don't always get these adjustments exactly right. I'd expect more adjustments of classes with 6.0 (on top of the announced healer adjustments to accommodate Sage).
    Then further tweaks as the new expansion pans out.
    Sadly your point about player numbers and changes falls flat because of 1. Monk being dead for about 4 years (3.2-5.4) 2. blm having consistently lower than average players yet its always gotten golden treatment because yoshida plays it and 3. warrior has been nowhere to be seen at varies times throughout the game's life span

    the sad but unfortunate truth is the devs stopped caring about player fun on a job, and started caring too much about "balance" instead of player numbers or job satisfaction. If they cared about player numbers, they'd make each job equally fun instead of most equally miserable.
    (5)

  5. #5
    Player
    ForteNightshade's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    3,648
    Character
    Kurenai Tenshi
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Mansion View Post
    I'm more inclined to say "because they added dancer". Bard was performing so well in late Stormblood that a form of nerf was expected (Crit scaling, DRG synergy). But it was still very popular in a more casual approach I believe.
    If anything, adding a new healer job is a bit worrying for me, because it might lead to another identity gutting for the sake of "balance".
    It's a mixture of both. They have a weird obsession with fitting jobs into a specific hole with no rhyme or reason. In this case, only one "support" Physical Range. That being said, it hasn't been performing well even in the casual scene based on unofficial censuses. Naturally, we can't know for certain but this same dated denoted the extreme dislike towards Monk, 5.0 Ninja, healers in general and etc. With all of them changed, it's hardly a stretch to claim Bard isn't popular anymore.

    I do share your concerns though. Scholar may end up bench warming because they focused everything on making Sage stand out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teraluna View Post
    I suggest the overall goal of the development team in regard to classes is to aim for as even a spread as possible. Now a level playing number across all classes is a Utopian condition, whilst also having to contend with the playing styles of different geographical regions.
    If the likes of Ast where seen to be at the lower end, then changes could be expected, and that of course is what happened. Similarly, if one or two classes are shown to be outstripping others in terms of player numbers, expect the same.
    Now before people jump in, the devs don't always get these adjustments exactly right. I'd expect more adjustments of classes with 6.0 (on top of the announced healer adjustments to accommodate Sage).
    Then further tweaks as the new expansion pans out.
    As Recon noted, this arguments falls flat because of Monk. They were told throughout Stormblood and even at the media tour itself how disliked the slow on Riddle of Fire was; how people were tired of more Grease Lightning management, and how the kit as a whole hasn't changed since HW. Despite that, they released ShB with literally everything players said they disliked; with Yoshida even commented of all the job changes, they were most proud of Monk. In a mere five weeks, they were forced to remove everything and panic buff it because the playerbase effectively said "nope, we're done." The 5.4 rework happened because despite said buffs, Monk remained the least played DPS by a mile. Even Black Mage was more popular at the Savage level. Which speaks volumes.

    Simply put, they were incredibly stubborn and only listened when Monk was basically thrown in the trash. If this were a one time occurrence, you'd see far less pushback and criticism. Sadly, it isn't. Healers are practically begging for more to do besides spam Glare/Malefic/Broil. And I already mentioned several others jobs.
    (9)
    Last edited by ForteNightshade; 03-06-2021 at 07:08 PM.
    "Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters."
    "The silence is your answer."


  6. #6
    Player
    Mansion's Avatar
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    Aug 2018
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    Gridania
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    Mansion Viscera
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    Louisoix
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    It's a mixture of both. They have a weird obsession with fitting jobs into a specific hole with no rhyme or reason. In this case, only one "support" Physical Range. That being said, it hasn't been performing well even in the casual scene based on unofficial censuses. Naturally, we can't know for certain but this same dated denoted the extreme dislike towards Monk, 5.0 Ninja, healers in general and etc. With all of them changed, it's hardly a stretch to claim Bard isn't popular anymore.

    I do share your concerns though. Scholar may end up bench warming because they focused everything on making Sage stand out.
    I was talking about 4.X Bard, sorry. I meant that it was performing extremely well in Savage, but it was also quite popular in casual content. So I don't think they changed Bard because it was "too hard" for casual players, but because they didn't know how to make two support jobs.

    I agree with what you say about sage, but I'd add a concern for the upcoming WHM / AST duo. If WHM has to compete with AST, rather than bringing WHM up to AST's level of support / utility, they might bring down AST's utility further.
    And I'm also quite sceptical about a clean heal / barriers mindset when shields have so little value in healing unless they are oGCDs currently. If they don't change encounter damage, I'm not surprised if healers will boil down again to "which two jobs bring more DPS to the party"
    (2)