Make tenacity great

[Azbel]

We should find a way to make tenacity great without overpowering it because right now even though it is a tank stats (only) , it doesn't do a great job at convincing us we need it

[SiriusSaltstice]

A tenacity build >>>> no build (or a random slot build)

[DRKoftheAzure]

Stat squish is probably trying to push for that in 6.0 but it might have the opposite effect anyone not a tank... so they end up making stat balance even worse than it already is when DPS start getting one-shot once again from at least ONE mechanic since belts are no longer going to be a thing which may make fights take slightly longer especially in leveling content(which is the most gutted content at the moment due to bad homogenization).

[Kabooa]

Stat squish is probably trying to push for that in 6.0 but it might have the opposite effect anyone not a tank... so they end up making stat balance even worse than it already is when DPS start getting one-shot once again from at least ONE mechanic since belts are no longer going to be a thing which may make fights take slightly longer especially in leveling content(which is the most gutted content at the moment due to bad homogenization).

I sincerely doubt the small amount of stats belts bring is going to matter in any way other than as a scapegoat.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I sincerely doubt the small amount of stats belts bring is going to matter in any way other than as a scapegoat.

I could have misheard but iirc, the stats from the belt will be redistributed among other pieces too, in case I did mishear, 100% belt isn't gonna make that much of a difference.

[Sqwall]

Full disclosure I run Warrior and have stayed with Crit, DET meld on the 520 Cryptlurker gear. When I swap to Paladin, Dark Knight I notice a difference since I don't want to remeld to DH.

I suppose it's all in how you look at it. I melded full tenacity with the 490 crystarium gear and got it to about 3k. The difference was able to get hit like a truck and shrug it off, and the heals from equilibrium would heal for about 50k and crit normally for 60-70k. Tenacity is great if you want to see some minor increase to preventing damage, and increasing incoming healing.

The other side of the coin is I added about 12 seconds on my Stone Sky Sea Eden Refulgence (savage) compared to full crit, Det meld on my warrior. Still finished it, but it was pretty close.

I think once you get into the 3k area for anything you start to see the difference.

Off topic but I can really see the difference when I run full CRIT on monk vs. full DH vs. full DET. Good thing is there isn't any real major hinderance to completing content.

[Azbel]

Yea but see , according to a spreadsheet i found the diff between going full ten to only getting the minimal amount from gear (around 1.5k) is like 5-6% less dmg taken. Not enough to convince any tank that the downtime created by this will save the healer enough mp healing to mp used in dps. They need to make it so tenacity is relevant or get rid of it. Maybe tenacity could add to parry chance and add an extra potency to our DCD so that we would actually look at it and go Hey! 12% less dmg taken with rampart this is actually worth it!

[ItMe]

I suppose my question is: how large of a disparity in tankiness should there be between someone who has min iLV for the content vs someone fully geared up?
If it's too big it throws off how they balance content, it leads to healers being quite bored after tanks get too beefy.
I suspect this is why a lot of our tanking stats are de-emphasized.

Personally, I'd like to see them further de-emphasized and have tanking rely more on your skillz.
Buffing a stat doesn't make your gameplay more dynamic. If anything it makes your time playing less interesting as you can start ignoring more and more of a fight/dungeon/whatever.
Having a higher party stat doesn't change how I play vs having a low party stat. It's just an artificial gate asking if my stat is good enough to survive. It's like a min iLV check... but for a stat.
(This is all assuming they increase tenacity efficiency AND make it important to have, and not make it influence your build more, but you still dont need it)

Tying tankiness to ability usage on the other hand... expanding what tools you have and how you can use them will lead to a more involved and dynamic tanking, and it's a design angle that's obliterated much less by the player out gearing content.
And here the gate to clearing content isn't "is your number bigger than X? You are tanky enough to survive." But more about "can you use your kit well enough to survive these things and potentially improvise on the fly when things go skills.

Not that SQEX couldn't do both.
Not that there isn't a FF14 out there with big tank stats and more dynamic kits.
But then it leads back into players being able to be too tanky and the problems that creates.

[Lyth]

The best way to address this is to have Tenacity replace Strength as a new primary stat for tanks. Tenacity is always going to be kept tightly in check as long as it's a secondary stat to prevent there from being large disparities in tankiness. But all those features - damage output, mitigation, and healing/shielding received - should continuously scale with higher item levels.

In return, make Direct Hit into a tank secondary, and encourage players to maintain a balanced portfolio of Crit, Direct Hit, Determination, and Haste, without making one or two of them clearly the best and encouraging everyone to double down on them.

[SpiralMask]

personally i throw TEN on my tanking gear when crit isnt available, since i dont need DH on WAR and it's what? half of DET's damage but with tanky bonus effects (damage reduction and increased healing), which i've found is helpful for the non-WHM healers and my massive hp pool. gets decent use on DRK as well due to them effectively lacking 2 defensive cooldowns half the time.