SE FINALLY ANSWERED THE HEALERS COMMUNITY LONG ANSWERED QUESTION

[CrimsonGunner]

ANSWERED IN THE INTERVIEWS, THE ANSWER IS " we heard your complains and we are ignoring them ". so to all healers casual,vet and healer bots alike know that whatever you do, however you job turns out or have bugs know that SE will read your comments and IGNORES THEM

[HyperiusUltima]

ANSWERED IN THE INTERVIEWS, THE ANSWER IS " we heard your complains and we are ignoring them ". so to all healers casual,vet and healer bots alike know that whatever you do, however you job turns out or have bugs know that SE will read your comments and IGNORES THEM

Go watch the interviews first and be constructive. I don't believe they're ignoring complaints necessarily, but Yoshida himself has answered a lot of questions in the interviews if you poke around.

[KDSilver]

They didn't ignore.
A proof of that is that their answer (at least from their point of view) is Sage.

But mostly, they still have their point of view on the question (or partially didn't get the problem).

[ty_taurus]

I don't want to necessarily promote false hope, but I do think there are some key silver linings to the situation.

In regards to Yoshi-P's current response to healer backlash: It really doesn't matter how he feels about it. He would need to maintain a stance that addresses their changes positively. Someone of his position couldn't say "yeah we fucked up, didn't we?" going into their next expansion. They need every response to raise EW up, not tear it down. I'm not saying that he's necessarily unhappy with the healer direct and lying about that, but what I am saying is that he was asked about healer depth multiple times by several different interviewers across the media tour. While I can't say it's a hope worth having, the fact that attention is being brought to those concerns in such a public fashion could inspire more effort trying to address these issues in the future. I don't really foresee healing going fully in the direction that I think most of us would want, but I just hope that makes our concerns more palpable for him and the design team moving forward.

Moreover, there was a particular response regarding their stance that healers aren't going to ever have more complex DPS actions in the future, but that's not necessarily set in stone. I'm reminded of Super Smash Bros. where, when Brawl was released, Sakurai specified that he could never imagine a character from Animal Crossing in the game, yet Villager was added in Super Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS. Again, I don't want to parade the idea that "he'll change his mind, just you wait!" But if these issues continue to be talked about in a more prominent light such as from FFXIV influencers, and Sage's popularity stays strong beyond EW's release and extends throughout the entire expansion, then there's a fair chance we could convince them to nudge healers a little closer to the direction we'd like.

Now, all of this is very optimistic speculation in an area that doesn't exactly inspire optimism, but I think it's worth trying to look at what more positive outcomes may stem from this because it may help us think about how we try and communicate our wants for the role moving forward. In other words, play Sage. Drop WHM and SCH if they're not enough for you. If you have friends who haven't tried Sage but like healing, convince them to level it. This won't literally happen, but imagine a hypothetical scenario where every healer player of level 70 or higher ONLY played Sage. It's a very extreme scenario, but I can't help but be curious about what the response from SE would be.

[KDSilver]

We'll never go back to HW SCH with every dots, yes.
But at least as you say, with influencer raising the problem and if Sage is popular... maybe we'll positively get a little something that is at least better than what we currently have.

I "hope"

[Sani2341]

They didn't ignore.
A proof of that is that their answer (at least from their point of view) is Sage.

Is it really though?

I might be widely off base, seeing as it'S based on reading tooltips, but isn't sage basicly screaming 'You too can dps without worrying abotu healing because your dps does heal dear sprout' based on what we have seen so far?

Which, at least to me, seems the exact opposite of what yoshi claimed it to be, which I understood as 'if you want to be less bored doing dps between heals, try sage', when Sage has basicly the exact same level of dps variety that other healers have, and no actual incentive to heal more than the bare minimum. (Now if Toxicon was a dps gain, or even jsut an oGCD, that would be a different story.)

[KDSilver]

Is it really though?

I might be widely off base, seeing as it'S based on reading tooltips, but isn't sage basicly screaming 'You too can dps without worrying abotu healing because your dps does heal dear sprout' based on what we have seen so far?

Which, at least to me, seems the exact opposite of what yoshi claimed it to be, which I understood as 'if you want to be less bored doing dps between heals, try sage', when Sage has basicly the exact same level of dps variety that other healers have, and no actual incentive to heal more than the bare minimum. (Now if Toxicon was a dps gain, or even jsut an oGCD, that would be a different story.)

We've been heard, Yoshi told it himself, about healer raider that dps ect...
Now... the "problem" have not been fully adressed. Sage is their "answer" (dpsing provide healing, which is a good start in the right direction). But since he also talked about not putting pressure on casual shoulder by putting more dps spells for other classes... (i won't debate that point here), well, Sage have been created with the offensive philosophy in mind.
But yeah, it'll still be Dosis spam most of the time so... they didn't really understand that diversity during downtime was the point and not purely offensive spells.

TLR : they heard it, but they didn't seem to fully understand it ? (or know how to properly implement this to please both casual and -core)

[Saefinn]

We're basically where MNK was an expansion or two ago. In that they've acknowledged this issues, are aware of the complaints and think they're addressing them but have yet to do so successful.

In saying that, what they've said is not entirely off the mark, I don't think they've done enough to achieve what they want to achieve, unless incoming damage in 6.0 is that significant. Because bear in mind our healing toolkits for 6.0 are powerful and some of the non-healer jobs are getting better healing and mitigation options. In a way it's frustrating because they're willing to strip us of our DPS moves but willing to give other jobs the ability to help out with healing and mitigation.

I am hoping that the stat squish has meant they've been able to tweak things in our favour and alleviate much of the pain. It feels like the right opportunity to do it and Yoshi P seems to acknowledge the iLevel disparity problem. But I am not getting my hopes up too much, because like in the MNK scenario, they took more missteps and their healer track record hasn't been great, we can remember Yoshi P being proud of the ShB MNK changes to urge people to look forward to them to find MNK's hated it. But it's only now that it looks like they might have made MNK good.

Yet...I am actually kinda relieved just to hear them actually talk about this. Sure it's not the answers I want, but I can now direct my feedback more constructively. We have been coming at this without knowing the devs' stance and us asking continuously for it to be addressed, like with healer questions being ignored in Q&A's, sure some of the Q&A's weren't appropriate places for it, but with them keep coming up and being upvoted should have suggested some communication is needed even if it's not in the Q&A's. And I think the lack of communication from a team who normally are good for communication felt pretty damning that they don't care about the situation or are just trying to ignore it.

So to know that they care but miss the mark is a better position than where we were. And I've been saying SGE looks like a step in the right direction (but not necessarily where we want to be) and from the interviews that seems intentional. And I think AST is too.

For all my complaints about how they're doing this all backwards, I am feeling the "doom and gloom" and cynicism about healers less. I just hope we're now in a position to start seeing more healer attention.

I realise the solutions I've been pushing for is unlikely to be taken, so there is that disappointment, but as I've communicated in other threads, it's something I can compromise on if the healer experience is fun and engaging, so I ought not get salty they're opting for a different direction, but of course can be salty if they don't achieve it.

[Gemina]

In regards to Yoshi-P's current response to healer backlash: It really doesn't matter how he feels about it. He would need to maintain a stance that addresses their changes positively. Someone of his position couldn't say "yeah we fucked up, didn't we?" going into their next expansion. They need every response to raise EW up, not tear it down. I'm not saying that he's necessarily unhappy with the healer direct and lying about that, but what I am saying is that he was asked about healer depth multiple times by several different interviewers across the media tour. While I can't say it's a hope worth having, the fact that attention is being brought to those concerns in such a public fashion could inspire more effort trying to address these issues in the future. I don't really foresee healing going fully in the direction that I think most of us would want, but I just hope that makes our concerns more palpable for him and the design team moving forward.

A couple of things. Yoshida is responsible enough to take accountability when he acknowledges a mistake his team has made which has lead to a lot of disappointment. You saw this when he directly apologized to all SCH mains for their lackluster showcase in the LL. He then went into great length to assure SCH mains that they have not neglected them, and to look forward to EW. Now that's when they acknowledge a eff up. Obviously he's not going to come out directly and say that, but it is a much different response than how he responded to everyone who asked about the healers.

It needs to be understood that the direction they have taken healing is not a mistake, or it is not seen as one by this dev team. It was a deliberate design choice that some healers don't agree with. I emphasize on some, because the healers upset by this design choice is not shared across the entire community, and are in fact, not even the majority of it. Over the years, the healers who do not agree with raising the requirements of them have been ostracized and their views drowned out. Some have even been shamed and told they condone inferior gameplay; so now all you hear for the most part are the frustrations from being bored by the game's advanced healers, as no one dare object or risk the wrath of the pitchfork mob. Meanwhile you have this enormous portion of the healer community who won't touch anything outside NM difficulty.

Moreover, there was a particular response regarding their stance that healers aren't going to ever have more complex DPS actions in the future, but that's not necessarily set in stone. I'm reminded of Super Smash Bros. where, when Brawl was released, Sakurai specified that he could never imagine a character from Animal Crossing in the game, yet Villager was added in Super Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS. Again, I don't want to parade the idea that "he'll change his mind, just you wait!" But if these issues continue to be talked about in a more prominent light such as from FFXIV influencers, and Sage's popularity stays strong beyond EW's release and extends throughout the entire expansion, then there's a fair chance we could convince them to nudge healers a little closer to the direction we'd like.

Now, all of this is very optimistic speculation in an area that doesn't exactly inspire optimism, but I think it's worth trying to look at what more positive outcomes may stem from this because it may help us think about how we try and communicate our wants for the role moving forward. In other words, play Sage. Drop WHM and SCH if they're not enough for you. If you have friends who haven't tried Sage but like healing, convince them to level it. This won't literally happen, but imagine a hypothetical scenario where every healer player of level 70 or higher ONLY played Sage. It's a very extreme scenario, but I can't help but be curious about what the response from SE would be.

What I just mentioned about all the healers who stay away from content EX and above is reason enough for them to not raise the skill floor by giving healers additional responsibility. This is why every once in a while they release a dungeon, NM raid, or wall boss in an alliance raid that is a bit more spicy than the rest to see how players do. What do you think it means if they latter go in an nerf one or more of these encounters, especially well after additional ilvs are released? A boss like Cid in Orbonne could be considered a trial of the playerbase, and guess what? We failed it. And you want to raise the skill bar? SE has yet to release an Alliance Raid we wipe to since Orbonne.

Here is another way to look at it, and this is most certainly how Yoshida does: If you raise the skill floor, what do you think happens to all the players residing on that floor currently? Sure, all the healers who stay above ground will benefit and thrive, but it comes at the cost of exclusion. However this dev team has to be indiscriminate of skill level when it involves decisions that affect the game on a global scale. You need to zoom out. Way the eff out. Those players on the current skill floor are also paying subscribers and have to be accounted for.

I'm not bringing all this up to smash hope before it can even sprout, but rather to broaden the perspective so suggestions on how to improve healer gameplay can go beyond the unsolvable puzzle it has been thus far. If you keep trying to solve a puzzle the same way, you will never get anywhere. Try another path.

I think if there is something to truly take from these interviews, it should be that Yoshida cares about each and every one of you. This is also something he does indiscriminately. So if you are aware now that his ear is open, you should know it has always been open. Be mindful of your suggestions. Try to be pleasant and inclusive, and it is totally ok to voice what you disapprove of and provide criticism. However anyone who chooses to berate the team, attack others who disagree, and rattle off like a broken record should not be surprised if hey are not listened to, or "ignored" as I see tossed around a lot.

What this team wants now is feedback from all the healers after getting their hands dirty with EW, especially those who try Sage. Why do you think he's telling you to go an play Sage?

[Gemina]

In saying that, what they've said is not entirely off the mark, I don't think they've done enough to achieve what they want to achieve, unless incoming damage in 6.0 is that significant. Because bear in mind our healing toolkits for 6.0 are powerful and some of the non-healer jobs are getting better healing and mitigation options. In a way it's frustrating because they're willing to strip us of our DPS moves but willing to give other jobs the ability to help out with healing and mitigation.

Now that is good stuff right there. That is a very strong and valid criticism that indeed does deserve an answer, and I am sure they do have one. My own view is it's a scenario wherein one side is true and the reverse is not. By that I mean it is much easier to give other jobs additional support abilities than it is to give healers additional offensive abilities while maintaining the current balance, which I believe they are content with. Healers also receive additional support abilities along with other jobs, so I wouldn't feel left out in that sense.

For all my complaints about how they're doing this all backwards, I am feeling the "doom and gloom" and cynicism about healers less. I just hope we're now in a position to start seeing more healer attention.

I realise the solutions I've been pushing for is unlikely to be taken, so there is that disappointment, but as I've communicated in other threads, it's something I can compromise on if the healer experience is fun and engaging, so I ought not get salty they're opting for a different direction, but of course can be salty if they don't achieve it.

Those interviews most definitely put out the flames I was having with SCH as a result of their showcase during the LL. What got me wasn't that damn meme, but rather that I KNOW SCH is capable of way more. That showcase did not do this friggin godly job justice at all. I still disapprove of the fey gauge and Lily in general not being properly addressed, but I also realize how wrong it was of me to say that I would put my SCH on strike until a rework. I can't provide, nor do I put myself in any place to give feedback if I don't play SCH in EW.

It is good to know you are less worried, salty, and willing to compromise. Don't let it stop you from making suggestions, or to express your disappointment. The good news is the game is still here, and can always improve so long as it is.