Just got done leveling....

[Lux_Rayna]

That's the gist of what you said. Or am I interpreting it differently from what you wanted to get across?

Exactly. Your interpretation was so far from the truth it wasn't even funny. Everyone who agrees with you just doesn't get it. The only person who does get it is the OP; but rather than accept that the OP found no offense, and took no offense, you and the other people in this thread won't drop it and see the error in your interpretation. You spend post after post trying to derail this thread into a flame war, rather than respect this thread for what it is. Read the OP's responses to me, read my responses to the OP, and you would not find any ill will or bad intentions anywhere! I just don't get why you guys are pursuing something when the OP clearly is on a different page. There's no reason for it other than to argue for the sake of arguing, which is ironic for people who respect the thread so much.

Me and the OP know exactly what I'm talking about. We have had this discussion before. I know what he was trying to get across in his post, and he knows what I was trying to get across in mine. None of you *do* know, because you weren't apart of the conversation. Do you see me arguing and exchanging flames with the OP? No! We're having a good ole discussion. He understood.

If you want to know what I meant I'll explain it, but I dont think itll do any good because people on the forums are naturally contentious and thrive off of creating flame wars. I should have ignored the first one, cuz obvious troll was obvious. But since you seem to be reasonable, ill explain it to you. At least your willing to believe you misread something.


I wanted to congratulate him on his experience, because its a rare experience to have. The rest of my post was reminding him that not everyone shares that experience, so they are not necessarily missing out on anything by PLing. On the contrary, sometimes they avoid a lot of pain and frustration. His post *was* a subtle argument against PLing, encouraging ppl to not PL. I picked up on that. That is why I proceeded with the rest, instead of just ending it at congratulating him for his experience. I reminded him that even if you PL, you can still share similarly wonderful experiences. All in all the exchange between him and I was a discussion about PLing. In no way did I invalidate his experience, say he did not have fun, claim my experience was better, or any of that. I dont see how people got all of that from my post.

Again, Zaaku understood it, and hopefully now you do too so this silly attacking can stop.

[Issac]

I wanted to congratulate him on his experience, because its a rare experience to have. The rest of my post was reminding him that not everyone shares that experience, so they are not necessarily missing out on anything by PLing. On the contrary, sometimes they avoid a lot of pain and frustration. His post *was* a subtle argument against PLing, encouraging ppl to not PL. I picked up on that. That is why I proceeded with the rest, instead of just ending it at congratulating him for his experience. I reminded him that even if you PL, you can still share similarly wonderful experiences. All in all the exchange between him and I was a discussion about PLing. In no way did I invalidate his experience, say he did not have fun, claim my experience was better, or any of that. I dont see how people got all of that from my post.

Again, Zaaku understood it, and hopefully now you do too so this silly attacking can stop.

I give a very strong suggestion: Choose your words more carefully if you don't want people up your ass. Taken out of context, you can easily see why people were so offended. And to that end, you should know that it is understandable. This is a public forum, and it's clear not everyone will know past conversations.

If you want to be loose like that, I suggest a more personal means of communication if possible. If you don't choose to do so, don't be surprised when people ram an ice pick up your ass, metaphorically of course.

[Lux_Rayna]

I give a very strong suggestion: Choose your words more carefully if you don't want people up your ass. Taken out of context, you can easily see why people were so offended. And to that end, you should know that it is understandable. This is a public forum, and it's clear not everyone will know past conversations.

If you want to be loose like that, I suggest a more personal means of communication if possible. If you don't choose to do so, don't be surprised when people ram an ice pick up your ass, metaphorically of course.

I don't care if people do that honestly, but if I say "you got it wrong" I expect people to just leave it at that. I dont blame anyone for misunderstanding, but I do blame them for continuing to misunderstand even after I tell them they misunderstood. Also, I wasn't even *talking* to them, and the person I was talking to did not misunderstand, so they have no reason to ram an ice pick up my ass except to flame for the sake of flaming. Like I said, I dont care if people do that, but they need to leave it out of threads like this. People wanna get into with me they can take it to pms. I love arguing with ppl as much as the next person, especially people who are clearly just trying to start something. I could do it all day.

That being said, yes I should work on my delivery to prevent misunderstandings, but this looseness is just my style of writing. If the person im talking to misunderstands, we will have it out, or work out our differences, however it turns out. Now if the person im talking to does understand, but cheerleaders on the sideline misunderstand, I fully expect them to shut up and acknowledge the fact they messed it up. I dont have to explain myself to them, nor should they demand one from me, simply because the person I was actually talking to already understood.

I would say that if they have that much of a problem with me, they can always PM me instead of trying to derail a good thread. Notice of all people here ive been the most on topic, the rest have just been trying to start a flame war. And apparently, according to these people, I'm the one discrediting the thread. Funny isn't it? Ive been respecting the thread more than anyone here has.

[Issac]

I don't care if people do that honestly, but if I say "you got it wrong" I expect people to just leave it at that. I dont blame anyone for misunderstanding, but I do blame them for continuing to misunderstand even after I tell them they misunderstood. Also, I wasn't even *talking* to them, and the person I was talking to did not misunderstand, so they have no reason to ram an ice pick up my ass except to flame for the sake of flaming. Like I said, I dont care if people do that, but they need to leave it out of threads like this. People wanna get into with me they can take it to pms. I love arguing with ppl as much as the next person, especially people who are clearly just trying to start something. I could do it all day.

That being said, yes I should work on my delivery to prevent misunderstandings, but this looseness is just my style of writing. If the person im talking to misunderstands, we will have it out, or work out our differences, however it turns out. Now if the person im talking to does understand, but cheerleaders on the sideline misunderstand, I fully expect them to shut up and acknowledge the fact they messed it up. I dont have to explain myself to them, nor should they demand one from me, simply because the person I was actually talking to already understood.

I would say that if they have that much of a problem with me, they can always PM me instead of trying to derail a good thread. Notice of all people here ive been the most on topic, the rest have just been trying to start a flame war. And apparently, according to these people, I'm the one discrediting the thread. Funny isn't it? Ive been respecting the thread more than anyone here has.

Public forum, no one person owns the floor. The cheerleaders can cheer all they want to if you aren't willing to explain.

I'm glad you did this time.

[Lux_Rayna]

End Game is supposed to be the climax of your journey up. The culmination of all your efforts and training which are then put to the test against an enemy many times stronger then you've ever faced before. Sure there is plenty of good times to be had at Eng Game and it certainly is a highlight of the game. Yet you seem to want to skip everything in between, which kind of invalidates sharing victory in the end.

Thats just it, there's nothing there in my opinion. Trust me, I tried. I tried really hard. The entire experience is miserable because its boring, uninspired, and uneventful. Combat was boring before the combo system, still boring outside of primal fights and bosses. I've never enjoyed partying in this game, except ONE time where it was kinda fun just cuz of the ppl. If there was something there, I'd be happy to do it. But there just isn't. It needs to be worked on, fixed, whatever needs to happen before I can justify going through the trials and tribulations. I dont disagree about your view, I just disagree that there's something there right now. If I hadn't been PLed when I had, I would've quit this game a long time ago. And you know what? Quite a lot of new players would too, and have. Its bad right now, and I cannot justify going through a long and painful experience just to *maybe* reap some reward or satisfaction in the end.

After all, we're not talking about a complete game here. Whatever its condition, though, a game is supposed to be fun. That is the first step to having a good experience. If something is not fun, at all, there's no way in hell I'm going to do it for hundreds of hours. I've never PLed before in my life, but XIV forced my hand...it was just too boring for me to do otherwise. If they fix the crap inbetween 1 and 50, I will wholeheartedly jump on your anti-PL ship. But really I don't care either way, I think ppl should play a game in a way that allows them to enjoy it. If you prefer endgame, pl to endgame. If you like to learn and grow over a journey, take that journey. I do think if a game fails to provide that journey, however, that they have no right to expect ppl to play through it, especially if they're paying money. And imo, SE failed to deliver for now.

[Fionlagh]

Yeah,Exp parties are pretty boring, the mobs die to quickly, its really hard to get that sense of identity that comes from using your class/jobs skill/abilities when theres just no time to even bother using them. and when you have a THM/BLM or 2 or 3... and youre on a melee class... i get so pissed off lol. i like that feeling of discovery.. you know, when you use an ablility and you can actually eye ball the results, and you get that feeling, "aahh, well hell man, thats what being a DRG/MRD/PLG ect feels like. hard to do that in current exp party play. combos can be pulled off , but not consistently. again if you have THM/BLMs , as a melee. you basically have to hope they have MP issues, or you are not getting shit done.

Exp Party play needs work, IN MY OPINION:
balance EXP around longer fights, not 1 minute fights, just make them long enough to be able to enjoy your class/job identity.
give us EXP camps with more variety of mobs, fighting the same type mob for hours just adds to the grind
heres an idea, have random/dynamic events at Exp camps, youre fighting raptors, a stronger predator has its sights on the same prey.
bandits ambush your party, ect.
camp options are always nice, right? tired of llooking at the same scenery, go to another zone.
alot more can be said/added, just some generic/general ideas.

even if EXP Party play become more interesting , PLs will remain, but it will address one reason why theyre considered acceptable by many.
Power Leveling has a place in my opinion , boring exp party should be at the bottom , it can be adressed and i think it will be.

other legit reasons for PLs:
new player wants to catch up to her/his high level friend
unlocking cross class abilities from a class you dont like to play.
player onlly enjoys end game, has a dislike for EXP progression and or doesnt have the time to consistently find/make parties.

i say theyre legit because theyre subjective and even if you argued , theres no black & white here, thats pretty obvious to me.

[Zaaku]

I wanted to congratulate him on his experience, because its a rare experience to have. The rest of my post was reminding him that not everyone shares that experience, so they are not necessarily missing out on anything by PLing. On the contrary, sometimes they avoid a lot of pain and frustration. His post *was* a subtle argument against PLing, encouraging ppl to not PL. I picked up on that. That is why I proceeded with the rest, instead of just ending it at congratulating him for his experience. I reminded him that even if you PL, you can still share similarly wonderful experiences.

End Game is supposed to be the climax of your journey up. The culmination of all your efforts and training which are then put to the test against an enemy many times stronger then you've ever faced before. Sure there is plenty of good times to be had at Eng Game and it certainly is a highlight of the game. Yet you seem to want to skip everything in between, which kind of invalidates sharing victory in the end.

It is like you signed up for a camping trip. Joined a bus load of random people and got taken to a wilderness you've never seen before. After setting up camp and getting situated into group of people you chatted with on the bus everyone heads out to the stream with their fly rods to catch some diner! The going is hard at first. The water is kind of cold. A few waders have leaks in them. The bites are not happening the moment the first fly hits the water but they keep at it. When everyone returns to camp for the night with their bounty in tow and begin to fillet and cook their much deserved reward....

Someone comes out from their auto-inflated luxury tent with an MRE and sits down with the group and digs in. That guy gets to experience a nice meal in the company of friends at the end of the day which is a note worthy memory but he cannot share in their banter and earlier discussion of the fishing itself. How Doug fell into the water which a fish tugged at him too hard and that bear that came to look at the group.

Eating may have been the goal at the end but it wasn't the ingestion of fish that those campers will remember. It is the time spent at the river side with good company and a new challenge.

[Issac]

End Game is supposed to be the climax of your journey up. The culmination of all your efforts and training which are then put to the test against an enemy many times stronger then you've ever faced before. Sure there is plenty of good times to be had at Eng Game and it certainly is a highlight of the game. Yet you seem to want to skip everything in between, which kind of invalidates sharing victory in the end.

It is like you signed up for a camping trip. Joined a bus load of random people and got taken to a wilderness you've never seen before. After setting up camp and getting situated into group of people you chatted with on the bus everyone heads out to the stream with their fly rods to catch some diner! The going is hard at first. The water is kind of cold. A few waders have leaks in them. The bites are not happening the moment the first fly hits the water but they keep at it. When everyone returns to camp for the night with their bounty in tow and begin to fillet and cook their much deserved reward....

Someone comes out from their auto-inflated luxury tent with an MRE and sits down with the group and digs in. That guy gets to experience a nice meal in the company of friends at the end of the day which is a note worthy memory but he cannot share in their banter and earlier discussion of the fishing itself. How Doug fell into the water which a fish tugged at him too hard and that bear that came to look at the group.

Eating may have been the goal at the end but it wasn't the ingestion of fish that those campers will remember. It is the time spent at the river side with good company and a new challenge.

Great analogy, but the dude with the delicious MRE (mmmm need to go sack the military surplus store) will remember the meal and I think that might be all that matters to him.