Open world changes?

[Enkidoh]

There's also the pirate encampment (Poor Maid's Mill) in Upper La Noscea which comes under attack by kobolds (and eventually, a giant couerl), and winning the FATE chain unlocks a qiqirn merchant temporarily that also sells a minion, which is like the aformentioned bandit camp in the Black Shroud and the attack on the bridge in Thanalan. All are FATE chains that are a continuing series of FATEs with branching results based on whether a FATE is failed or completed.

* Adjust EXP
- Make it so grinding overworld mobs could be a viable method of leveling. Doesn't have to go overboard to invalidate everything else, but would be nice.

This is not going to happen I'm sorry to say as Yoshi specifically designed the game deliberately to avoid this. He doesn't want players farming trash mobs out on the overworld over and over again in FFXI-style EXP parties. Instead, he wanted to move players over to what he termed "content based EXP", that is, EXP gained through completing content or events such as quests, FATEs and dungeons (he stated this way back during the Beta test when players actually requested that very idea of EXP parties).

Basically, the days of 'Dooms parties' like FFXI are gone and are never coming back here (the closest you can get to that is forming EXP parties to run Palace of the Dead or Eureka, but again that's special content and not available for the regular overworld).

[Shougun]

Wrote a lot here and there but in a bit vague-r.. slightly.. (lol) shorter form:

• Archeology and chocobo hot and cold - I think using chocobo for both, but one would be more find it once and done, nice checklist with some nice lore implications and rewards (like recreate some famous armor or statue), and then one that is more repeatable (like chocobo hot and cold of FFIX).
• FATEs and monsters to sometimes award chests which can have bonus exp, tomes, unique buffs / items. Unique buffs could be like infinite sprint for the next 5 minutes (not really infinite.. then but lol you get the point). Growth buff that makes you 20% bigger and deal 20% more damage, etc.
• Revamp of the leve system, I'm thinking madlib sort of system that has a sort of 'big multi-zone' like quest vibe but is very worth the time investment (and therefore maybe limited like previous leve system was, leave crafting leve alone or separate them).
• Hunts, add / upgrade the hunting log to encourage using it like a log for.. hunts . Introduce soul fading to NMs such that they leave a mark on the land temporarily when they've died. You can find these marks and based on how faded they are fight them for their rewards (more faded the weaker they are, less rewards, can optionally choose a weaker fade). Increase reward for finding live NMs (like an extra roll from the item table), but also make them not scale as much (except the S ranks, leave them to be the sort of world boss like vibe). When fighting the faded variant may be a bit like Bozja but with phasing (so it feels like a BCNM sort of, like in FFXI). Add unique items with unique effects that are for non-end game fun (may do something powerful, for the period it exists in, but are designed not to eat up the balance concerns of end game- perhaps using special scaling like our collectors earrings to facilitate that with like "open world only affix" or "non-savage / ultimate" affix), special appearances and helpful leveling effects. B ranks to scale to the player (content for those leveling and level caps). Ingredients to be used in crafts, think a bit monster hunter inspired. Now players are encouraged to race each other but you're not ruined if you failed the race (and if you were solo player you could 'probably' solo most of them if you dropped the fade level).
• Consider both mixing and enhancing the FATE system from ShB into other expansions (and itself). To allow players a sense of growth for the whole zone. Completing FATEs, certain side quests, beast tribe quests, etc - all have implications for your zone (while most may be visual, some could be features like shortcuts, npc merchants, new nodes, etc). Besides the normal progression of beast tribes and this new concept of the zone's level affecting the zone, also consider purchasing with your beast tribe tokens zone changes- like you might buy an upgrade that adds a fast travel point and some paved road / tank patrol for the dwarves, etc, etc). I had a thought in that thread dedicated to the idea that you might also seen high rank zones with beast tribe powers to help you level old relics if one wanted, like the slyph may create a fountain that you could bathe your weapon in once a day for some light and then they'd sell sunlit flowers that would give you bonus light per dungeon run (bought with beast tribe currency of course).

• Generally consider adding challenge log (such that they rewards can be substantial without turning into a mega massive holy "ffxi" / everquest era farm), rewards, perhaps like the leve (I call mega leve sometimes), that allow some players to make some substantial progression in the open world if they chose to (some of this in some ways is already true but the systems for them are sometimes a bit circumstantial and or potentially annoying, like why I suggested hunts has an encouraged 'live' mode and yet not a ruined soul faded mode, as sometimes say Balmung comes in as a giant death ball and kills another server's hunts and then that server is mad). Like perhaps a sort of 'relic' open world armor made from NMs and other content of the open world, that you can upgrade over time adding onto it, feeling a bit wild and with the vibe of that expansion / zones. Maybe not the fastest thing to rank up but 'an option' if you wanted to, and comes with benefits like what relic has been in the past, pretty casual friendly.. just time intensive and not always 'the best' (but certainly not the worst, consistently a solid choice of gear and unique looking).

This one is kind of a very wide group that's not just open world but:

Think role play and immersive thoughts. What? Lots of things FFXIV does well but this one I feel, in comparison to other MMOs especially, FFXIV does not. Too busy following formula and consistent rules. So like.. monsters that don't aggro you because they're not there just to be road blocks for gamepaly, they exist to fill the world as well. Not all monsters needing to even be enemies (critters for example). To the open world this means adding secrets and hidden little gems. Maybe on the full moon a cave opens up and there is a special item in there. On the month of your star sign your shrine may give you a blessing. Items may do special effects that describe how they exist / obtained (not just +5 strength). Items may do things for fun, because they're fun - like you might come across 'lighter than a feather chocobo tail feather' item that's not a consumable (man FFXIV is addicted to consumables lol, give me some trinkets dangit) which will grant you slow fall shortly. You're a rogue (ninja), locked chest or doors. You're a dragoon, locked door = jump over the wall. Etc. On the concept of the open world, having camps, and the ability to set up camps, would be awesome - giving some FFXV road trip vibes if possible (but consider classic FF games with the "tent" item as well). In these camps you could use local resources to make buffs for that zone, can pair these meals with an actual cooking item to increase the buff duration while in that zone (to make it so cooking job isn't taken over, these buffs wouldn't replace that- but do extra things), some zones may come with special recipes too like if you craft a certain potion during levin weather (Ixion's) you might make a Bolt Draft which grants you 5 charges of enhanced sprint (faster, while the sprint duration is active sprint is replaced with a unique dash that does lightning damage).

A bit of a larger aside to the whole role play thing is role play merit board (sphere grid). Where each job has exp they earn from a variety of tasks (many large benefits from open world, perhaps challenge log of open world has big exp rewards). These things could be stuff like dragoon gaining fall damage resistance and then upgrading it to no damage (they're lord of jump.. come on.. why does Ninja have this but not dragoon? Well part of it is because FFXIV is a bit too rigid sometimes, imo, where I do think they could take a few tips from other MMOs without going so far as to loose their own sense). These things would be done to avoid any issues with savage / ultimate whether they have to not work in that content or just don't really matter (say maybe fall damage doesn't matter). Besides examples like jump, or maybe mages with special teleports, you'd also get special effect changers like Dark Knight could gain their HW shadow smoke effect for darkside rather than the red goku kaioken looking effect. May also consider special upgrades/side choices for nodes like dragoon 50% damage reduction might be a talent you could spend A LOT of points on for all your jobs, but the 100% damage null would only ever be for Dragoon. Special jump mode for Dragoon that allows them to leap, perhaps even in combat (of the open world), giving them a bit of that hulk jump super dragoon feeling (may use flying unlock as part of it for better pathing scripting, such that if you land on something unpathable you might 'land on your spear' and continue on from there and optionally mount your flying mount). Maybe if you wanted the special teleport on all jobs, you could because you feel too lazy that day to switch jobs but you'd have to unlock that side grade.

[Roda]

-SNIP-
This one is kind of a very wide group that's not just open world but:

Think role play and immersive thoughts. What? Lots of things FFXIV does well but this one I feel, in comparison to other MMOs especially, FFXIV does not. Too busy following formula and consistent rules. So like.. monsters that don't aggro you because they're not there just to be road blocks for gamepaly, they exist to fill the world as well. Not all monsters needing to even be enemies (critters for example).
-SNIP-

I pretty much agree with everything in this post but I need to highligh tthis because well it's one of the constant things that stick out to me about XIV's take on the open worldl where ONLY RELEVANT THINGS TO YOUR EXP BAR IS DISPLAYED.
Where the hell are the normal bits of wildlife??! Why is everything that moves giant and out to kill me? Why do they roam in designated splotches on the map like someone took a DIREWOLF paintbrush and dabbed it down on one specific section? Is literally EVERY BUG on hydaelyn a 200+ pound goliath? Every non-crotch-censoring squirrel the size of a small mastiff? Even in far more developed areas in the real world, where animals try to stay as far away from humanity as possible, there's more harmless movement in the trees and bushes. The only time I can think that I saw a non-hostile animal in the game is when I can gather a frog jpg out of a bush.

The oceans do an alright job with non-hostile wildlife clutter, but I find being able to target, and kill/interact with these critters to be a very important part of their implementation. If you can't interact with something in a game, it really might as well not even be there. (what with interaction being the main way we experience videogames and all that). SE, seriously. Put a dog npc in the game that isn't a part of a quest. Have it targettable and friendly and let it roam around an area. Let us /pet the dog. This LITTLE thing will bring so much joy. (Hell, have a hidden achievement to /pet the dog X amount of times with a title/minion/glamor item it'll be great. Make X like some stupid high number too. Island sanctuary seems cool, and I really appreciate it. But if you could take this kind of approach to the entirety of the already existing game world, I would appreciate THAT kind of casual content a lot more.)

And another thing to complement the whole of the quoted post. I really wish that the XIV dev team would take the courage of implementing systems like they did with Eureka and Bozja (not talking about the leveling or the actions, but the mechanics encouraging exploration, navigation, narrative, and discovery) and put them to the whole of the open world zones. I'm really tired of the majority of gameplay being locked behind a menu and a queue and the fact that they've taken two expansions to lock map-based content behind a queue and an instance timer really has put a sour taste in my mouth.

[kaynide]

As said above, Guildwars 2 is pretty great as far as general over world feeling...but I firmly think it’s already too late for FF, unless they spent an entire expansions worth of effort to do a massive TLC update.

Ways to make the over world more relevant (but I feel is too late):

• Revamp physics engine to allow better world interaction (legit jumping puzzles)
• Revamp flying, or make mounts more interesting (again see GW2 where you can climb up walls etc and flying is more akin to gliding)
• Better server latency, to allow for actual racing or interaction with environment. As is if I am running slightly in front of my wife, on her PC it’s the exact opposite. Impossible to have a “photo finish”. Better latency = moving platform interaction, etc.
• Give multiple ways to interact with open world content. Eg. From GW2: Bandits set a farm on fire. You can a) extinguish flames, b) fight the bandits directly and/or c) try to rescue people/animals.
• Make the world dangerous, with open world places to explore with a “your probably gonna die in there” expectation. This is in direct conflict to what YoshiP wants for the game.

[Raikai]

As said above, Guildwars 2 is pretty great as far as general over world feeling...but I firmly think it’s already too late for FF, unless they spent an entire expansions worth of effort to do a massive TLC update.

Ways to make the over world more relevant (but I feel is too late):

• Revamp physics engine to allow better world interaction (legit jumping puzzles)
• Revamp flying, or make mounts more interesting (again see GW2 where you can climb up walls etc and flying is more akin to gliding)
• Better server latency, to allow for actual racing or interaction with environment. As is if I am running slightly in front of my wife, on her PC it’s the exact opposite. Impossible to have a “photo finish”. Better latency = moving platform interaction, etc.
• Give multiple ways to interact with open world content. Eg. From GW2: Bandits set a farm on fire. You can a) extinguish flames, b) fight the bandits directly and/or c) try to rescue people/animals.
• Make the world dangerous, with open world places to explore with a “your probably gonna die in there” expectation. This is in direct conflict to what YoshiP wants for the game.

You raise a lot of interesting points, the one that I really look at is the overal environmental responsiveness, that is kind of slow. I got used by now, but I suppose it would improve vastly the feel of a dynamic world if we could do more...I suppose that is something caused by the infamous sphagetti code?

[Shougun]

You raise a lot of interesting points, the one that I really look at is the overal environmental responsiveness, that is kind of slow. I got used by now, but I suppose it would improve vastly the feel of a dynamic world if we could do more...I suppose that is something caused by the infamous sphagetti code?

I didn't play loads of GW2 but the movement, especially imo the mounts, was pretty nice. FFXIV feels a bit 'old' in that regard. Especially if you think of the collision. I also feel the different types of movement and the pretty accurate movement helps in terms of just plainly engaging with the game (gives it a more responsive and dynamic feel, more.. tactile). I don't want hyper old school era travel but I do think it's neat to be like "oh I could use X mount or ability to parkour up that mountain in 20 seconds" vs something more FFXIV like where it's like "hold w and spacebar for 15 seconds to get to the top, yeeeeet". Each person will have their own concept of what's too much or not enough but personally I think some more engagement with the environment would be a good thing (while still trying to keep maximum travel times to very reasonable durations, shouldn't take forever to get somewhere but "getting there" could be part of the fun rather than "hold w").


I'm not sure how FFXIV does it but it makes me wonder why it's not more like some other games that have it far more closely based on the models of stuff (like if you used the editor for a bethesda game, if you made a house it would have collision exactly like you'd expect- but if SE makes a house.. the house roof may not have it because.. reasons.. or the collision may be loose and so you can hang off the edge by a lot.. it's all sort of fuzzy).



Maybe super hard to fix in FFXIV without some major reworks but I really hope they can fine tune the experience next time around if not this time.

[kaynide]

You raise a lot of interesting points, the one that I really look at is the overal environmental responsiveness, that is kind of slow. I got used by now, but I suppose it would improve vastly the feel of a dynamic world if we could do more...I suppose that is something caused by the infamous sphagetti code?

Don't know in detail, but Guildwars 2's code is built in a way they have legit semi-pvp-but-actually-minigames, such as mario-kart style races, or dashing to collect coins like Sonic, or even things like platform/jumping/launching based dodgeball. It's not amazing, but it's at the very least interesting and something to do outside of the main game.

In addition, the jumping puzzles are just generally fun to do and feel more akin to playing a 3D mario game than an MMO.

FFXIV's biggest problem is they tacked on a jump system late into the game, so when you jump you have no control over movement while in the air. Rather than actually jumping, the player is more "teleporting" to their landing site. This means we can't have things like "jump over the laser beam", and can't really have fine control in a jumping puzzle environment. Moreover, the game has wonky hit boxes that make no sense.

Try the Kugane clock tower to see what I mean; what is an exercise in cheesing the system involves standing/landing on invisible platforms for hours of frustration on your first try would be like.. 10 min in guild wars 2.

More of a personal thing, but as a player who is (probably overly) confident in their jumping-game skills, FFXIV is incredibly frustrating. And this is coming from someone who has 100% the siteseeing log.

Anyway, long story short, better physics is just fun. It's just genuinely fun to blaze across the map on my roller beetle and rocket off walls or up ramps (it's like a sonic the hedgehog motorcycle?).

[Roda]

Try the Kugane clock tower to see what I mean; what is an exercise in cheesing the system involves standing/landing on invisible platforms for hours of frustration on your first try would be like.. 10 min in guild wars 2.

Shout out to wildstar which had literal Giant Laser Double Dutch as a raid encounter.

[Lynesse]

+1. I've seen a lot of BLUs doing FATEs lately, and it's made the world feel very alive. I hope that when/if more Limited jobs get released, the world stays populated like it has been.

I love seeing people doing things out in the world, and I love helping them.

If we had really powerful world bosses that needed policing because they were interfering with something else, that would be cool.

I tanked Cancer today as BLU, and I realized something: It doesn't need obtuse mechanics to be challenging because it has that timer. It's a DPS race. It's still very fun to work with a ragtag group of randoms to bring this huge sack of HP down within the allotted time.

It's an easy fight, even with low DPS, but I remember a time when it wasn't. The building blocks are there for challenging and fun world content. They just need to do more with it.

[LogicMouse]

Scale everything up to your level instead of you down. Nearly every major MMO already does this
Have world bosses and world evens that are worth doing.