Discrepancy in lore (spoilers)

[Cilia]

Personally I get the impression that the invasions of Eorzea by Garlemald failed largely because of plot armour, including when the plot armour is disguised or plot-babbled into plausibility.

It's definitely improbable for Eorzea to have been given so many miracles that saved it from Imperial conquest in so short a time (relatively speaking), but it's not implausible the way it's written, and that has to be enough.

Regardless of how improbable it is, the starting three city-states have to be available to all players at all times if for no other reason than because they're where seasonal events are based so all players (who've completed a modicum of the story) can access them. Circumstances will always conspire to keep them free, regardless of how plausible those circumstances may be. The writers' job on that front is to make those circumstances believable, and other than Midgardsormr saving Eorzea in a deus ex machina moment pre-1.0 I'd have to argue they've succeeded.

(Just like we already know Zenos' and Danny Boy's nefarious plan to cause the apocalypse isn't going to succeed for gameplay purposes; it's just a matter of what's going to happen in the course of their failure, and what victory is going to end up costing us. Gameplay demands will always mean pre-6.0 zones are completely, totally untouched by the Final Days, regardless of how plausible that may not be. Only a big, Calamity-level event could end up actually denying us access to sections of the world, and well, given XIV is in a good way right now, I just don't see that happenin'.)

[YianKutku]

It's definitely improbable for Eorzea to have been given so many miracles that saved it from Imperial conquest in so short a time (relatively speaking), but it's not implausible the way it's written, and that has to be enough.

Regardless of how improbable it is, the starting three city-states have to be available to all players at all times if for no other reason than because they're where seasonal events are based so all players (who've completed a modicum of the story) can access them. Circumstances will always conspire to keep them free, regardless of how plausible those circumstances may be. The writers' job on that front is to make those circumstances believable, and other than Midgardsormr saving Eorzea in a deus ex machina moment pre-1.0 I'd have to argue they've succeeded.

(Just like we already know Zenos' and Danny Boy's nefarious plan to cause the apocalypse isn't going to succeed for gameplay purposes; it's just a matter of what's going to happen in the course of their failure, and what victory is going to end up costing us. Gameplay demands will always mean pre-6.0 zones are completely, totally untouched by the Final Days, regardless of how plausible that may not be. Only a big, Calamity-level event could end up actually denying us access to sections of the world, and well, given XIV is in a good way right now, I just don't see that happenin'.)

Yeah, I often have to keep reminding myself that above all, out-of-universe meta-explanations take vastly more priority than in-universe explanations for "why does this happen". That being said, it does cause some issues for lore discussions, since we have to take everything into account to assume a consistent setting, but what gets added into the lore is beholden to what the developers toss to the lore team to attempt to justify. I know the lore team makes a valiant effort, and I respect them for it, but sometimes I just have to look at the incongruities and shrug.

It does fall into the trap of escalation: we're supposed to believe that this time the world is actually in danger, if only to present a sense of tension, but we also know that stuff like marketing and sales and game development means it's not actually going to happen. But there's the idea, even among players, that the next threat has to be bigger, because we solved the previous threat. Hence the complaints I recall seeing on this forum about how Stormblood felt like a step back in terms of stakes, after Heavensward. And since this has to keep happening for as long as the game is around, all these improbable escapes from conquest or destruction start to add up.

[Vyrerus]

It does fall into the trap of escalation: we're supposed to believe that this time the world is actually in danger, if only to present a sense of tension, but we also know that stuff like marketing and sales and game development means it's not actually going to happen. But there's the idea, even among players, that the next threat has to be bigger, because we solved the previous threat. Hence the complaints I recall seeing on this forum about how Stormblood felt like a step back in terms of stakes, after Heavensward. And since this has to keep happening for as long as the game is around, all these improbable escapes from conquest or destruction start to add up.

That's fairly interesting. My first time through Stormblood my biggest question was, "But what has Zenos been through that makes him stronger than me?" It never really got answered, he just was. As far as the overall stakes went though, after seeing Omega and Shinryu go toe to toe, or electric laser beam to protostar breath... I thought the dragon Pope had been thoroughly one upped, and I looked forward to finding out how Shinryu vs. Omega concluded. Plus we visited and freed two nations, rather than just one.

Just interesting that people didn't perceive the stakes as being raised. Do you remember some of the explanations/whys for that?

[YianKutku]

That's fairly interesting. My first time through Stormblood my biggest question was, "But what has Zenos been through that makes him stronger than me?" It never really got answered, he just was. As far as the overall stakes went though, after seeing Omega and Shinryu go toe to toe, or electric laser beam to protostar breath... I thought the dragon Pope had been thoroughly one upped, and I looked forward to finding out how Shinryu vs. Omega concluded. Plus we visited and freed two nations, rather than just one.

Just interesting that people didn't perceive the stakes as being raised. Do you remember some of the explanations/whys for that?

To be honest it's been a while, so I've completely forgotten most of the explanations, except that while I disagreed with them, some of the posts were quite well-written and I could see their point.

One of the things that stuck with me was a post saying that the antagonists (and general conflicts) of Heavensward and Stormblood should have been swapped chronologically, since apparently ending the Dragonsong War and defeating Primal Thordan was proof of "more power" on our part, compared to eventually defeating Zenos and freeing two nations as an aside. I think it was indeed something along the lines of Zenos's power level being implausible when we already triumphed over Thordan (and Nidhogg), so going Gaius-Zenos-Thordan would be a smoother curve of believable power levels. Which, again, implies that there should be an upwards curve of power levels, and thus narrative escalation.

[Vyrerus]

and thus narrative escalation.

Ranjit

Y'all two's posts make me think that perhaps this is the best explanation for why they kept Zenos around, and why they showed Elidibus to flee from him. To quash the idea that there won't be a proper escalation. I mean, afterall, Fandango is just another sundered Ascian, and we've been stepping on standard red mask Ascian toes with relative ease ever since Nabriales. Of course, with the Eden raid series, they've shown what a red mask can do when given a powerful enough tool... makes me wonder how monstrous Nabriales may have become if he'd succeeded in keeping broken Tupsimati.

I'm hoping the idea that Emet-selch experimented on Zenos leads into us learning more of his backstory, and how he grew to be quite so powerful. Perhaps it's intended to be the villain's version of, "The Gifted?" Of course, my narrative hopes for Zenos might be held too high. He is probably just around for his dummy thicc power level. *sigh*

Also Alleo - Ranjit drove me crazy. I did his first instanced fight on DRK the first time around, and if you time tank cooldowns right, you pretty much take no damage... yet you're supposed to believe he's knocked you down for the count. I know it's a debuff all its own in plenty of fights where your HP doesn't get reduced, but even so... just UGH