Discrepancy in lore (spoilers)

[Cilia]

Eorzea is helped by plot armor but there are viable reasons invasions have failed.

First, since the VIIth had the then-newly reborn Alliance dead to rights at Cartenau, it's expanded its arsenal, trained, and adapted to Imperial tactics. Originally the Alliance was just the 1.x city-states: Limsa Lominsa, Gridania, and Ul'dah. They managed to scrape out a win against the XIVth alone thanks to tactical utilization of its forces to the fullest and exploiting weaknesses in Imperial technology (and a teensy bit of help from Hydaelyn, but then again Gaius indirectly had help from Zodiark so it evens out). The next major clash with the Empire came in the Stormblood conflict, after adding Ishgard's considerable arsenal of anti-air weapons and tactics to its repertoire. Finally the hypothetical war with the Empire that played out in the original timeline had both Ala Mhigo and Doma in the mix; neither want for martial prowess.

The Empire's technology can only do so much. It was able to blitz and conquer a wide swathe of territory, but other nations have wised up to how to counter it's technology and strategies and begun to band together to resist (or outright defy) its iron fist.

Second, the Empire's wide swathe of provincial territories is itself a handicap: because it generally mistreats conquered peoples, the Empire needs to keep its legions garrisoned in the provinces to discourage and quash rebellions. That means no matter how powerful its military might be it can't commit all its forces to an offensive without taking a huge risk. If it could I have little doubt Eorzea would fall like dominoes, but the Empire's provincial territories and how they're (generally) managed mean it can't do an all-out offense; meanwhile the Eorzeans are fighting just on one front (Ghimlyt) with all their forces (minus primal-slaying special ops, presumably).

We've never seen an Aurora-class cruiser deployed by the Empire; the only one we've seen at all is Gaius standing on the bridge of his during the End of an Era FMV. Considering each legion's legatus has one as a flagship, I assume they keep them in reserve as symbols of power and authority. The Agrius-class has an abysmal combat record. Nobody knows where the kupo the IVth got that airship or what it can do (but it must needs be there for XII reference). The biggest other airships we've seen are smaller escort cruisers... which can be shot down with artillery fire, as we do during Castrum Meridianum.

For all its power, technology, and advantages, the Garlean Empire is not invincible.

[Brightamethyst]

Eorzea isSecond, the Empire's wide swathe of provincial territories is itself a handicap: because it generally mistreats conquered peoples, the Empire needs to keep its legions garrisoned in the provinces to discourage and quash rebellions. That means no matter how powerful its military might be it can't commit all its forces to an offensive without taking a huge risk.

Which was the entire reason SB worked. Stirring up trouble on two fronts, distracting Zenos and making him further split his forces.

[Jandor]

Which was the entire reason SB worked. Stirring up trouble on two fronts, distracting Zenos and making him further split his forces.

Could have been a good idea that, if we hadn't gotten a bit too carried away and just straight up pushed the Garleans out of Doma. It's hardly a war on two fronts if you close the second front as fast as you open it.

[YianKutku]

Eorzea is helped by plot armor but there are viable reasons invasions have failed.

Personally I get the impression that the invasions of Eorzea by Garlemald failed largely because of plot armour, including when the plot armour is disguised or plot-babbled into plausibility.

There are a lot of "just so" circumstances that led to our victories, which are understandable on their own, but when all put together it starts to be incredible that we, and Eorzea in general, are so lucky. For example, the XIVth's defeat at the hands of the Eorzean Alliance was mostly self-inflicted, with Ultima destroying the Praetorium being the most direct damage. Our part in Operation Archon was largely to perform decapitation strikes, and most importantly to remove the Ultima Weapon from play. Which technically the Garleans didn't need if it wasn't for their paranoia over Primals, but Gaius apparently got it in his head that he could use it as both an assurance to his eventual subjects that he could handle the Primal problem, and also as a general threat.

And I would not be surprised if Solus had prohibited Gaius from continuing his conquest of Eorzea in the exact manner calculated to make Gaius rebel anyway, because Emet-Selch.

Dragons usually wont intervene on mortal issues usually so dont expect them to do much unless their species got threatened by the Empire.

I've always wondered about how Midgardsormr went All Hands On Deck against the Garlean invasion of Eorzea, which just happened to be passing by Silvertear Lake at the time, but snoozed through the entirety of the Allagan Empire, including the Crystal Tower being built right next door, and also Bahamut turning into a Primal and Tiamat getting imprisoned. (And also Omega being researched by the Allagans.)

The Allagans weren't worth intervening against, but the Garleans were. This, despite Emet-Selch himself mentioning that the Garlean Empire was inferior in sense of accomplishment compared to Allag.

Another underrated talent that people overlook is garlemald is supposed to be excellent at intelligence and subterfuge, both of which were required to defend their borders prior to magitek. That at the very least gets more attention than their airpower but it's still fairly under-represented.

Yeah, we got the Ivy storyline, and then basically nothing. Even in the NIN questline, we're only told that many of the shinobi were working for Garlemald, but we don't see any effects that highlighted this. Meanwhile, the shinobi on our side have been doing a good job of destabilizing the provinces and being our own intelligence division.

(Also Nero mentioning the Frumentarius as counter-intelligence once, and never again. And Lucia, but since she defected, I don't think she counts as a success for Garlemald.)

[Cilia]

Personally I get the impression that the invasions of Eorzea by Garlemald failed largely because of plot armour, including when the plot armour is disguised or plot-babbled into plausibility.

It's definitely improbable for Eorzea to have been given so many miracles that saved it from Imperial conquest in so short a time (relatively speaking), but it's not implausible the way it's written, and that has to be enough.

Regardless of how improbable it is, the starting three city-states have to be available to all players at all times if for no other reason than because they're where seasonal events are based so all players (who've completed a modicum of the story) can access them. Circumstances will always conspire to keep them free, regardless of how plausible those circumstances may be. The writers' job on that front is to make those circumstances believable, and other than Midgardsormr saving Eorzea in a deus ex machina moment pre-1.0 I'd have to argue they've succeeded.

(Just like we already know Zenos' and Danny Boy's nefarious plan to cause the apocalypse isn't going to succeed for gameplay purposes; it's just a matter of what's going to happen in the course of their failure, and what victory is going to end up costing us. Gameplay demands will always mean pre-6.0 zones are completely, totally untouched by the Final Days, regardless of how plausible that may not be. Only a big, Calamity-level event could end up actually denying us access to sections of the world, and well, given XIV is in a good way right now, I just don't see that happenin'.)

[YianKutku]

It's definitely improbable for Eorzea to have been given so many miracles that saved it from Imperial conquest in so short a time (relatively speaking), but it's not implausible the way it's written, and that has to be enough.

Regardless of how improbable it is, the starting three city-states have to be available to all players at all times if for no other reason than because they're where seasonal events are based so all players (who've completed a modicum of the story) can access them. Circumstances will always conspire to keep them free, regardless of how plausible those circumstances may be. The writers' job on that front is to make those circumstances believable, and other than Midgardsormr saving Eorzea in a deus ex machina moment pre-1.0 I'd have to argue they've succeeded.

(Just like we already know Zenos' and Danny Boy's nefarious plan to cause the apocalypse isn't going to succeed for gameplay purposes; it's just a matter of what's going to happen in the course of their failure, and what victory is going to end up costing us. Gameplay demands will always mean pre-6.0 zones are completely, totally untouched by the Final Days, regardless of how plausible that may not be. Only a big, Calamity-level event could end up actually denying us access to sections of the world, and well, given XIV is in a good way right now, I just don't see that happenin'.)

Yeah, I often have to keep reminding myself that above all, out-of-universe meta-explanations take vastly more priority than in-universe explanations for "why does this happen". That being said, it does cause some issues for lore discussions, since we have to take everything into account to assume a consistent setting, but what gets added into the lore is beholden to what the developers toss to the lore team to attempt to justify. I know the lore team makes a valiant effort, and I respect them for it, but sometimes I just have to look at the incongruities and shrug.

It does fall into the trap of escalation: we're supposed to believe that this time the world is actually in danger, if only to present a sense of tension, but we also know that stuff like marketing and sales and game development means it's not actually going to happen. But there's the idea, even among players, that the next threat has to be bigger, because we solved the previous threat. Hence the complaints I recall seeing on this forum about how Stormblood felt like a step back in terms of stakes, after Heavensward. And since this has to keep happening for as long as the game is around, all these improbable escapes from conquest or destruction start to add up.

[Vyrerus]

It does fall into the trap of escalation: we're supposed to believe that this time the world is actually in danger, if only to present a sense of tension, but we also know that stuff like marketing and sales and game development means it's not actually going to happen. But there's the idea, even among players, that the next threat has to be bigger, because we solved the previous threat. Hence the complaints I recall seeing on this forum about how Stormblood felt like a step back in terms of stakes, after Heavensward. And since this has to keep happening for as long as the game is around, all these improbable escapes from conquest or destruction start to add up.

That's fairly interesting. My first time through Stormblood my biggest question was, "But what has Zenos been through that makes him stronger than me?" It never really got answered, he just was. As far as the overall stakes went though, after seeing Omega and Shinryu go toe to toe, or electric laser beam to protostar breath... I thought the dragon Pope had been thoroughly one upped, and I looked forward to finding out how Shinryu vs. Omega concluded. Plus we visited and freed two nations, rather than just one.

Just interesting that people didn't perceive the stakes as being raised. Do you remember some of the explanations/whys for that?

[YianKutku]

That's fairly interesting. My first time through Stormblood my biggest question was, "But what has Zenos been through that makes him stronger than me?" It never really got answered, he just was. As far as the overall stakes went though, after seeing Omega and Shinryu go toe to toe, or electric laser beam to protostar breath... I thought the dragon Pope had been thoroughly one upped, and I looked forward to finding out how Shinryu vs. Omega concluded. Plus we visited and freed two nations, rather than just one.

Just interesting that people didn't perceive the stakes as being raised. Do you remember some of the explanations/whys for that?

To be honest it's been a while, so I've completely forgotten most of the explanations, except that while I disagreed with them, some of the posts were quite well-written and I could see their point.

One of the things that stuck with me was a post saying that the antagonists (and general conflicts) of Heavensward and Stormblood should have been swapped chronologically, since apparently ending the Dragonsong War and defeating Primal Thordan was proof of "more power" on our part, compared to eventually defeating Zenos and freeing two nations as an aside. I think it was indeed something along the lines of Zenos's power level being implausible when we already triumphed over Thordan (and Nidhogg), so going Gaius-Zenos-Thordan would be a smoother curve of believable power levels. Which, again, implies that there should be an upwards curve of power levels, and thus narrative escalation.

[Vyrerus]

and thus narrative escalation.

Ranjit

Y'all two's posts make me think that perhaps this is the best explanation for why they kept Zenos around, and why they showed Elidibus to flee from him. To quash the idea that there won't be a proper escalation. I mean, afterall, Fandango is just another sundered Ascian, and we've been stepping on standard red mask Ascian toes with relative ease ever since Nabriales. Of course, with the Eden raid series, they've shown what a red mask can do when given a powerful enough tool... makes me wonder how monstrous Nabriales may have become if he'd succeeded in keeping broken Tupsimati.

I'm hoping the idea that Emet-selch experimented on Zenos leads into us learning more of his backstory, and how he grew to be quite so powerful. Perhaps it's intended to be the villain's version of, "The Gifted?" Of course, my narrative hopes for Zenos might be held too high. He is probably just around for his dummy thicc power level. *sigh*

Also Alleo - Ranjit drove me crazy. I did his first instanced fight on DRK the first time around, and if you time tank cooldowns right, you pretty much take no damage... yet you're supposed to believe he's knocked you down for the count. I know it's a debuff all its own in plenty of fights where your HP doesn't get reduced, but even so... just UGH