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  1. #1
    Player
    Bhearil's Avatar
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    Mar 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
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    425
    Character
    Tuya Bayaqud
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 52
    Are you really using a Hien as a standard of Eorzea's soldiers can do? He managed to hold off (with some help) a possessed Zenos that was stronger than his earlier aparitions until Wol arrived when normal Zenos was shown plowing through normal soldiers like butter while not even trying since his first aparition. Eorzea do have some exceptional individuals but they are far and between. That the Wol can pull off some crazy stuns doesnt mean that normal soldiers can manage even a tenth of it

    "Q. How strong is the Warrior of light as a human? A. The strength is as follows: Guts > Lv70 WoL > Zenos > Raubahn > Lv50 WoL. The lv70 WoL beating Zenos was a miracle."

    At the very least Hien should be on the level of Raubahn, someone who was considered an invincible legend and that even despite losing an arm can still kick massive ammounts of ass and is a one (armed)man army

    Normal Dragoons are not even close to the level of Estinien considering that hes probably the WoL strongest ally looking at his crazy feats, so dont expect a normal Dragoon oneshooting ships (plus they are specialized on fighting dragons, only the WoL its stated to have a personal multi purpose style)

    Story has stated that Garleans were kicked all around until they developed magiteck then defeated everyone near (proving that usually magitech>magic sans exceptions) until they started using conscripts to fix their lack of magic issues, so they have a huge edge in numbers and tech

    The reason why Garlean empire didnt conquered Eorzea is basically plot armor (designed to create chaos, having a civil war etc), since every time Garleans solved an issue, another popped out forcing them to not focus on Eorzea once again
    (1)
    Last edited by Bhearil; 02-20-2021 at 03:02 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Brightamethyst's Avatar
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    Jul 2014
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    Character
    Jenna Starsong
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Bhearil View Post
    The reason why Garlean empire didnt conquered Eorzea is basically plot armor
    True, but Eorzea also has other factors that make it a harder nut to crack than someplace like Doma or Dalmasca. Even Ala Mhigo probably only fell because it was already unstable (and alone, after the Autumn War) when Garlemald invaded. You've got dragons, primals, a city state who's entire army is specifically trained for anti-air tactics, and aether so dense it literally makes people sick until they get used to it (though the writers have been mostly ignoring that last one these days.) That, combined with the fact that the goal is conquest, not annihilation, makes a takeover much harder.
    (6)

  3. #3
    Player
    Bhearil's Avatar
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    Mar 2015
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    Ul'dah
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    425
    Character
    Tuya Bayaqud
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 52
    Dragons usually wont intervene on mortal issues usually so dont expect them to do much unless their species got threatened by the Empire. Ishgard anti air weaponry is mid range at best since dragons ranged atack is limited in range, meanwhile Garlean ships can bombard from afar carpet bombing style. Ala Migho was on its prime as strong as the three main cities combined, but King Theodric civil war weakened its power making an easy pick for Gaius Van Baelsar. Dalmasca is more of a conquered yet not pacified region with guerrillas roaming around, but they werent a serious threat until they joined forces with Orthard and even so their victories were bloody

    The most worrysome issue for Garlean Empire are the primals due to their wild card nature and lack of counters against their tempering
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    VargasVermillion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    851
    Character
    Val Vermillion
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Another underrated talent that people overlook is garlemald is supposed to be excellent at intelligence and subterfuge, both of which were required to defend their borders prior to magitek. That at the very least gets more attention than their airpower but it's still fairly under-represented.
    (3)

  5. #5
    Player
    Vyrerus's Avatar
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    May 2014
    Location
    The Interdimensional Rift
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    3,600
    Character
    Vicious Zvahl
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Bhearil View Post
    I'm a Berserk fan
    That's cool that you like Berserk, but Guts is nowhere close to the power of the Warrior of Light as they are by Stormblood. Not even in the Berserker Armor. Much cooler and more fun to ruminate on, sure, but let's leave other fiction at the door, ok?

    I said DRGs, cause that was just one idea, specifically for taking out the Sky Armor pilots. One big weakness for almost all Magitek personal vehicles is that the pilot is exposed and not even strapped in. There are loads of other ways the Eorzeans could prepare anti-air contingencies. They don't, because it's not conducive to giving it a cinematic feel.

    Also keep in mind, Magitek armor runs out of energy/sky armor runs out of ammo. They will have to go back to reload or engage with their claws and grapples, as they do as regular enemies in gameplay.

    If Pipin were a thinker, and he had accounted for the possibility of Sky Armor, as Lucia remarks afterwards in inbetween dialogue, they could have had anti-air contingency in place.

    As for Magitek being > Magic, well obviously it's not. Your average Magitek armor is better and more reliable than a novice mage, but any veteran mage can literally blow the pilot and the armor apart.

    And then lastly, as far as how strong Hien is... well remember he didn't hold off Elidibus possessing Zenos by himself. He was backed up by Yugiri and Lyse. They barely held their own, and canonically Elidibus could not fully replicate Zenos's technique, instead falling back on his Ascian dark magic.
    (1)
    Last edited by Vyrerus; 02-20-2021 at 03:21 PM.

    (Signature portrait by Amaipetisu)

    "I thought that my invincible power would hold the world captive, leaving me in a freedom undisturbed. Thus night and day I worked at the chain with huge fires and cruel hard strokes. When at last the work was done and the links were complete and unbreakable, I found that it held me in its grip." - Rabindranath Tagore

  6. #6
    Player
    Alleo's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
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    Character
    Light Khah
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 91
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrerus View Post
    That's cool that you like Berserk, but Guts is nowhere close to the power of the Warrior of Light as they are by Stormblood. Not even in the Berserker Armor. Much cooler and more fun to ruminate on, sure, but let's leave other fiction at the door, ok?
    The guts quote was, if I remember it correctly, a quote directly from Yoshida himself.
    (2)

  7. #7
    Player
    Vyrerus's Avatar
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    May 2014
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    The Interdimensional Rift
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    3,600
    Character
    Vicious Zvahl
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Alleo View Post
    The guts quote was, if I remember it correctly, a quote directly from Yoshida himself.
    Cool, Yoshi-P's wrong too.
    (0)

    (Signature portrait by Amaipetisu)

    "I thought that my invincible power would hold the world captive, leaving me in a freedom undisturbed. Thus night and day I worked at the chain with huge fires and cruel hard strokes. When at last the work was done and the links were complete and unbreakable, I found that it held me in its grip." - Rabindranath Tagore

  8. #8
    Player
    Alleo's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
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    4,730
    Character
    Light Khah
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 91
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrerus View Post
    Cool, Yoshi-P's wrong too.
    I am not even disagreeing with you on that since I dont like it when you compare strenght to someone that is not even part of the game but I wanted to make sure that this was not something a poster came up with.

    In the end the devs will decide what they need at the moment. The WoLs greatest weakness is a cutscene after all. My character has every job at lvl 80. So when someone is taken hostage I could just be like "Well have a swiftcast sleep right in your face" but instead no matter how strong we are, as soon as a cutscene starts we are weak as lvl 1 adventurers.
    (4)

  9. #9
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Hermit's Hovel
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    3,698
    Character
    Trpimir Ratyasch
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Eorzea is helped by plot armor but there are viable reasons invasions have failed.

    First, since the VIIth had the then-newly reborn Alliance dead to rights at Cartenau, it's expanded its arsenal, trained, and adapted to Imperial tactics. Originally the Alliance was just the 1.x city-states: Limsa Lominsa, Gridania, and Ul'dah. They managed to scrape out a win against the XIVth alone thanks to tactical utilization of its forces to the fullest and exploiting weaknesses in Imperial technology (and a teensy bit of help from Hydaelyn, but then again Gaius indirectly had help from Zodiark so it evens out). The next major clash with the Empire came in the Stormblood conflict, after adding Ishgard's considerable arsenal of anti-air weapons and tactics to its repertoire. Finally the hypothetical war with the Empire that played out in the original timeline had both Ala Mhigo and Doma in the mix; neither want for martial prowess.

    The Empire's technology can only do so much. It was able to blitz and conquer a wide swathe of territory, but other nations have wised up to how to counter it's technology and strategies and begun to band together to resist (or outright defy) its iron fist.

    Second, the Empire's wide swathe of provincial territories is itself a handicap: because it generally mistreats conquered peoples, the Empire needs to keep its legions garrisoned in the provinces to discourage and quash rebellions. That means no matter how powerful its military might be it can't commit all its forces to an offensive without taking a huge risk. If it could I have little doubt Eorzea would fall like dominoes, but the Empire's provincial territories and how they're (generally) managed mean it can't do an all-out offense; meanwhile the Eorzeans are fighting just on one front (Ghimlyt) with all their forces (minus primal-slaying special ops, presumably).

    We've never seen an Aurora-class cruiser deployed by the Empire; the only one we've seen at all is Gaius standing on the bridge of his during the End of an Era FMV. Considering each legion's legatus has one as a flagship, I assume they keep them in reserve as symbols of power and authority. The Agrius-class has an abysmal combat record. Nobody knows where the kupo the IVth got that airship or what it can do (but it must needs be there for XII reference). The biggest other airships we've seen are smaller escort cruisers... which can be shot down with artillery fire, as we do during Castrum Meridianum.

    For all its power, technology, and advantages, the Garlean Empire is not invincible.
    (6)
    Trpimir Ratyasch's Way Status (7.3 - End)
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    "There is no hope in stubbornly clinging to the past. It is our duty to face the future and march onward, not retreat inward." -Sovetsky Soyuz, Azur Lane: Snowrealm Peregrination

  10. #10
    Player
    Brightamethyst's Avatar
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    Jul 2014
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    Character
    Jenna Starsong
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Cilia View Post
    Eorzea isSecond, the Empire's wide swathe of provincial territories is itself a handicap: because it generally mistreats conquered peoples, the Empire needs to keep its legions garrisoned in the provinces to discourage and quash rebellions. That means no matter how powerful its military might be it can't commit all its forces to an offensive without taking a huge risk.
    Which was the entire reason SB worked. Stirring up trouble on two fronts, distracting Zenos and making him further split his forces.
    (0)

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