Thread: Fix Summoner Once and For All in 6.0 Please!

SMN was my main in SB, but ShB's playstyle ruined it for me... Before was strict, yeah it was, but at least it wasn't the disorganized mess that it is right now. Every major patch I try to get back to it, but the job feels bad to me personally. I can't even find a cohesive way to set my keybinds, because the actions feel so disconnected.

Some of the things that I dislike:

1) Dreadwyrm Trance should be the same button as Summon Bahamut! It would make it a bit more cohese with how Demi-Phoenix is summoned, and would save a keybind.

3) Adding to the point above, the Dreadwyrm trance itself (the 12-ish seconds before Bahamut) feels out of place at this rate. Again, I think cohesion with how the Demi is summoned is a plus.

4) Why 2 Egi assaults when they achieve the same potency single target? Wouldn't be better to have just 01 action with 4 charges?

5) Aetherflow feels completely disconnected to the job at this rate... When we are so focused on going through the Trances and the Demis, and managing Further Ruin stacks and Egi assault stacks... Might as well just give Fester and Painflare 2 charges and bake Energy Drain's damage into them.

6) Kind of a forgotten subject... But why Physick can't get a trait to scale with Int instead, post level 30, so we can finally use it to something? It wouldn't be as good as Vercure or even Curing Waltz, but can help you live on a tight situation.

7) This is just more of a wishful thinking... Regarding what we have now. Phoenix works the same way as Bahamut (8 gcds, 2 enkindles)... just using different buttons. I wish Phoenix was more distinct in that regard.

8) Further Ruin deserved a gauge of its own.

Originally Posted by Raikai

SMN was my main in SB, but ShB's playstyle ruined it for me... Before was strict, yeah it was, but at least it wasn't the disorganized mess that it is right now. Every major patch I try to get back to it, but the job feels bad to me personally. I can't even find a cohesive way to set my keybinds, because the actions feel so disconnected.

My Keybinds for Summoner look like this:


I think they're fairly intuitive, but I know that my setup isn't remotely like the default WASD controls + CTRL/ALT/SHIFT + 1 through 0. I'd clump things differently on a controller just to account for cross-hotbar swapping.

The problems Summoner has right now are like Monk's post-trim-down. Rotation's simple and functional, but the synergy and interaction between elements of the kit is practically non-existent. Obvious areas are in need of a rework, but it doesn't need to get a full rework again, just key areas need attention. SB Summoner was the worst though, without question. Bahamut should never return to how he functioned in that expansion.

Originally Posted by Raikai

Some of the things that I dislike:

1) Dreadwyrm Trance should be the same button as Summon Bahamut! It would make it a bit more cohese with how Demi-Phoenix is summoned, and would save a keybind.

3) Adding to the point above, the Dreadwyrm trance itself (the 12-ish seconds before Bahamut) feels out of place at this rate. Again, I think cohesion with how the Demi is summoned is a plus.

Agreed. This is a common complaint. There is a downside to this though. You get punished if you can't use Trance at the right time. Ostensibly this is why we have the 55s cooldown, but I'm not married to that number change. This is a big issue with Summoner now compared to all of its prior iterations, and one of the turnoffs from the job for prior expansion mains. One of the few upsides to DWT as it exists now is that it still lets us flex Bahamut around in that manner, and it shouldn't be understated how useful that is in content with a lot of downtime like E12 Normal or Savage. I've popped Trance to get it cycling before your movement is locked during the Relativity phases and it is worth it every single time. That was one of the reasons I loved HW Summoner and also despised SB Summoner. SB Pets would disrupt the cycle.

Originally Posted by Raikai

4) Why 2 Egi assaults when they achieve the same potency single target? Wouldn't be better to have just 01 action with 4 charges?

The actions change based on pet. Ifrit's just happen to be the most basic on single targets, though notably his EA2 can be executed on a target that's about to disappear and still get a Further Ruin proc even if the action itself ghosts. Titan has better AoE on EA2 than Garuda, who has better AoE compared to Ifrit in general. Ifrit is better than either at two targets or less based on autos. If pet swaps were cleaner using them as part of the core rotation would be viable. oGCD EAs made Titan Shield viable. The fact it's gated by 2 GCDs is what makes it useless outside of pre-planned situations. I would assume this is all getting thrown out despite being functional. Mostly because the main thing gating Egi Glamour is the differences in function and area shape between all of these actions.

Originally Posted by Raikai

5) Aetherflow feels completely disconnected to the job at this rate... When we are so focused on going through the Trances and the Demis, and managing Further Ruin stacks and Egi assault stacks... Might as well just give Fester and Painflare 2 charges and bake Energy Drain's damage into them.

To me, the solution is to return Aetherflow back into the kit. This solves your other issue with Fester/Painflare as well. Use it to get Aetherflow stacks as well as access Trance (which would get reduced to a 20s cooldown) as before. This also means we can use Energy Drain/Siphon as low level versions of Fester/Painflare which get upgraded out of existence, which would save a button.

Originally Posted by Raikai

6) Kind of a forgotten subject... But why Physick can't get a trait to scale with Int instead, post level 30, so we can finally use it to something? It wouldn't be as good as Vercure or even Curing Waltz, but can help you live on a tight situation.

It's literally because Yoshi-P and other class design teams think it shouldn't be viable on Summoner. This has been stated in multiple interviews over the years and isn't likely to change. That said, it does have a niche use. LB generation during downtime. Taking any action that heals HP while the boss is away still generates bar. It was even better in Stormblood because healing a target at low health mid-combat was actually viable in some speedruns (it would give you extra bar for the same reasons mitigating lethal damage did). As it is now? It's basically a shoddier Meditate for rDPS.

Originally Posted by Raikai

7) This is just more of a wishful thinking... Regarding what we have now. Phoenix works the same way as Bahamut (8 gcds, 2 enkindles)... just using different buttons. I wish Phoenix was more distinct in that regard.

To me it's Bahamut that feels outdated. I get the complaint on their similarities though. By the numbers they are apart from Everlasting flight adding in a tiny delay. I think Phoenix is fine, but I'd like Bahamut to get a glow up by making him enhance our Aetherflow actions Fester/Painflare during his phase only. This achieves the Wyrmwave feel of Stormblood without being god awful to play with if you need to use him while moving for any reason. I would expect numbers changes here, and maybe AI changes too. I doubt spell-triggered autos are going away, but I hope a Heel AI overhaul is coming. Egis behave in the exact same way till you use the Place command or have them start auto-attacking something to death.

Originally Posted by Raikai

8) Further Ruin deserved a gauge of its own.

Eh, the buff stack bar is fine, but I get this. I don't think it's worth worrying about given Ruin IV is likely to be reworked alongside the Egi rework in 6.0.