Fix Summoner Once and For All in 6.0 Please!

**Achantion** · 02-23-2021 05:48 PM

While the SMN doesn't "need" a complete rework, I wouldn't be opposed to it.

At the bare minimum just align the mechanics on the current SMN so that it doesn't feel like a Frankenstein of stapled-on mechanics anymore, which funnily enough isn't that much work.

Align the way Bahamut and Phoenix work. Condense both of them into a Trance and have Bahamut also replace Ruin 3 and Outburst with something fancy like Phoenix does.
Solve the demi-puppy behavior and the egi-ghosting.
Replace Deathflare with Enkindle Bahamut/Phoenix once unlocked.
Increase the cooldown from Trance into 1 minute.

Voila, current iteration is fixed and behaves like the beloved HW SMN again, except DWT is now updated to have Bahamut at 70 and Phoenix at 80.

Some further improvements would include (but these would be personal requests and not really fixes)

Decouple Wyrmwave/Scarlet Flame from the SMN GCD. Just have the demi do it automatically each GCD.
Have Enkindle Bahamut/Phoenix work like Pilebunker from MCH. Have the Demi do it automatically when leaving the battlefield, or leave when you press it yourself. Increase potency to match this.
Return Shadowflare

**battleshadow66** · 02-24-2021 09:16 AM

Please stop comparing between different games, since each of them have their own rules/interpretations on how their elements work (jobs included).

I'm not sure that this is supposed to mean. Summoner has been the same in every game in what it does. The only difference would be the duel jobs some characters had, like BLM/SMN or WHM/SMN. FFXIV has been the game that has had it's own interpretation of summoner. And currently its a bargain bin Warlock from Warcraft.

Also Scholars and Sages shouldn't be your go to comparison since those jobs are not common FF jobs...

**Exodus-E** · 02-24-2021 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by battleshadow66

I'm not sure that this is supposed to mean. Summoner has been the same in every game in what it does. The only difference would be the duel jobs some characters had, like BLM/SMN or WHM/SMN. FFXIV has been the game that has had it's own interpretation of summoner. And currently its a bargain bin Warlock from Warcraft.

Not exactly.

Fundamentally speaking, yes: Summoner calls forth entities for attacking enemies or supporting allies.
But it's how it does so that's different between games (gameplay-wise and/or lore-wise).

From FF3 to FF9 it's been (more or less) the same, in that summons were pretty much glorified spells.

From FF10 on-wards though, is where they started changing things up (with FF11 and FF13 being the most "unique").

Originally Posted by battleshadow66

Also Scholars and Sages shouldn't be your go to comparison since those jobs are not common FF jobs...

Scholars and Sages have appeared in a fair amount of FF games, though.
Granted, not nearly as much as the other "common" FF jobs, but enough as to have consistent elements tied to them (thus, their own identities).

For Scholars, it's their weapon of choice (books), the ability to analyze/debuff enemies and being able to use both main schools of magic (in a limited, different manner).

For Sages, is being able to use both main schools of magic to their full potential (or having access to exclusive advanced spells).

They weren't exclusively healers in earlier FF games (and in Scholar's case, it didn't even have pets), which is why I've used them as comparisons.
On a side note, I'm fully aware that as of this post we still don't know Sage's full learnset, so we shall see in due time.

**Keramory** · 02-25-2021 01:40 AM

When people first complained about SMN in 2.0 all those years ago, others responded to let the job be unique (dot based) and not like FFXI. I personally disagreed, but fine. However its 2021 and the job still feels like a mess between dots, egis and the limited super egis. At this point why not just try and make it more like FFXI and see how it goes?

Instead of weaving through these abilities and the minor egi input mixed in, why not weave through summons and have them attack for you? Garuda applies dots, Ifrit does damage, Titan supplies some utilities and super Balmung maximum for burst?

I'm still confused though on why we don't have egi glam the size of Bah or the Phoenix. We clearly don't mind a giant dragon or oversized bird for a good chunk of these fights just flying around, just be done with it and give other players the option to turn the graphic off.

**ty_taurus** · 02-25-2021 05:17 AM

Also, maybe this is way too much wishful thinking, but could we update egis with new versions based on the eden raids? Like, I hate saying the current egis are ugly, cause you know some people put work into trying to make them look thematic, but there's never not been a day where they've been collectively despised regardless of how SMN plays. Just updating the egis with a slightly larger form based on their eden versions would be really nice, including alternate versions for Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva.

**SweetPete** · 02-25-2021 10:13 AM

I hope we get an ability “Summon Primal” Summons a random elder primal to use their attack. Hehe I’d love that.

**ItMe** · 02-25-2021 11:05 AM

SMN is definitely the job I'm gonna be looking at the changes for first...
It was my first job, but I've since basically dropped it and I'm hoping I can rock it once more.

**SweetPete** · 02-25-2021 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by ItMe

SMN is definitely the job I'm gonna be looking at the changes for first...
It was my first job, but I've since basically dropped it and I'm hoping I can rock it once more.

Yeah me too. I truly hope they do us justice. Not just add another Demi-primal and give us a whole bunch of trait upgrades and call it a day.

**Ayden** · 02-25-2021 02:52 PM

How about removing Energy Drain and Energy Siphon?

Fester
Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 300
Maximum Charges: 2
Shares a recast timer with Painflare
Recast: 15s
Cast: Instant

Painflare
Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 130 to target and all enemies nearby it.
Maximum Charges: 2
Shares a recast timer with Fester
Recast: 15s
Cast: Instant

**Kabooa** · 02-25-2021 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Ayden

How about removing Energy Drain and Energy Siphon?

I know you're just sort of throwing this out there, but given how much Summoner has moved away from Arcanist, this wouldn't be surprising in the least.

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