Thread: Fix Summoner Once and For All in 6.0 Please!

Originally Posted by Dyvid

I'm referring to suggestions and ideas I've posted in the past that have made it in game, you're welcome to search my name but be warned it goes back 10 years. I have no clue what they are playing and that is what has me worried. I know Egi design is a hot button because I've seen it posted over and over and over for the past 8 years.

I read this differently I guess. I'm taking it as they have too many "systems" on SMN that just didn't work in 5.0 like they hoped and I agree with that. You have Trance, Demi, Egi, DoT, Aetherflow... It was just too much to try and keeping piling one of top of the other which is what they tried to do. I don't think it was too much though, just not revamped to work well with each other. But's I'll say that if you remove pets from a pet job, the forums will erupt with very negative feedback.

Highly doubt there will be major backlash if they did remove pets. Many players who main summoner or just delve into it once in a while know how much the pets AI sucks. Many people will praise if the pets are gone. The only thing I see is people want to keep carbuncle around. I think it will become mostly cosmetic. However many hate the egis. Always have. So I completely disagree with you about there being major backlash. I don’t think so.

Originally Posted by SweetPete

Highly doubt there will be major backlash if they did remove pets. Many players who main summoner or just delve into it once in a while know how much the pets AI sucks. Many people will praise if the pets are gone. The only thing I see is people want to keep carbuncle around. I think it will become mostly cosmetic. However many hate the egis. Always have. So I completely disagree with you about there being major backlash. I don’t think so.

You underestimate how much people love mascot characters.
You underestimate the power of a cute face and a human's love for their pets.
I would be devastated if they just removed them, and everyone in my FC has been asking for SMN to do more pet things... not none.

Originally Posted by SweetPete

Highly doubt there will be major backlash if they did remove pets. Many players who main summoner or just delve into it once in a while know how much the pets AI sucks. Many people will praise if the pets are gone. The only thing I see is people want to keep carbuncle around. I think it will become mostly cosmetic. However many hate the egis. Always have. So I completely disagree with you about there being major backlash. I don’t think so.

I will be upset if the pets are fully gone. I would much rather see something done to the Demi's rather then the base pets as the huge ghosting issues happen with them. ( I know you can ghost egi abilities via trying to do two at once but that is avoidable.)

Originally Posted by ItMe

You underestimate how much people love mascot characters.
You underestimate the power of a cute face and a human's love for their pets.
I would be devastated if they just removed them, and everyone in my FC has been asking for SMN to do more pet things... not none.

I love pets as well. I wouldn’t mind having carbuncle stay around only as cosmetic. With the direction they taking summoner and now with this rework talk I’m not sure egis are going to survive. That’s all I’m saying. If they do manage to survive that’s fine too. Just hopefully square will have something good in store for them. As of now they are absolutely worthless and bring nothing to summoner but a forever dot with an unreliable ai. A few might want the pets to stay but many and I mean many trust me want to see them gone. It’s just the way it is.

Originally Posted by SweetPete

A few might want the pets to stay but many and I mean many trust me want to see them gone. It’s just the way it is.

Is this just like... your gut take on things? Or do you have data to support this claim?

Outside of bad pet ai the class mechanically is excellent

Anyone who thinks otherwise needs more time with it

Originally Posted by ItMe

Is this just like... your gut take on things? Or do you have data to support this claim?

He’s interpreting the many SMN forum posts that amount to “Please change pets/egi!” in a way that benefits his viewpoint. No one wants Summoner to not care about summons. There’s just a wide variety of suggestions, from Dissidia Yuna-style animations that are functionally the same as a regular GCD spell, to Summonsong Demi/phases akin to the worst of Bard and current pet AI smothered together, to more reasonable suggestions like not changing anything except the underlying engine and net code problems that are the root cause of the pet issues, to pulling out old ARR/HW skills and repurposing them as the low level equivalents to Dreadwyrm and Firebird Trance so that the job’s levelling progression makes some amount of sense again.

If SE wants to completely scrap current pets, that’s their prerogative. Personally I think they should commit to fixing what they have using the best of what worked in prior expansions, just because the only assets people actually hate are the Egi.

Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

He’s interpreting the many SMN forum posts that amount to “Please change pets/egi!” in a way that benefits his viewpoint. No one wants Summoner to not care about summons. There’s just a wide variety of suggestions, from Dissidia Yuna-style animations that are functionally the same as a regular GCD spell, to Summonsong Demi/phases akin to the worst of Bard and current pet AI smothered together, to more reasonable suggestions like not changing anything except the underlying engine and net code problems that are the root cause of the pet issues, to pulling out old ARR/HW skills and repurposing them as the low level equivalents to Dreadwyrm and Firebird Trance so that the job’s levelling progression makes some amount of sense again.

If SE wants to completely scrap current pets, that’s their prerogative. Personally I think they should commit to fixing what they have using the best of what worked in prior expansions, just because the only assets people actually hate are the Egi.

Ah, I see.
Thank you~

I think my biggest problem with the idea of the removal of pets is the systems I see popularly suggested just sound like rip offs of existing classes.

- Move through different trances (Bard songs)
- Execute a series of actions to get a summon to do an attack (Caster Ninja)
- Give us the Primal skills instead (Blue mage)

I also feel a lot of people keep missing the full quote from the Mr.Happy interview which is: "Currently Summoner as a job is reaching somewhat of a breaking point when it comes to the overall play mechanics, so we've halted work on Egi-glamour for the time being to shift focus."

"For the time being" is key here. That itself implies it isn't fully destroyed but rather they are shifting focus elsewhere for SMN. Also what the heck happens to SCH if the pet AI has been deemed to unwieldy. I honestly think is is more in reference to they can't just keep throwing in trances and big Demis or the rotation will become far too long and thus they need to evaluate what to do where to keep the rotation length reasonable.

Originally Posted by Xeronia

I think my biggest problem with the idea of the removal of pets is the systems I see popularly suggested just sound like rip offs of existing classes.

- Move through different trances (Bard songs)
- Execute a series of actions to get a summon to do an attack (Caster Ninja)
- Give us the Primal skills instead (Blue mage)

I also feel a lot of people keep missing the full quote from the Mr.Happy interview which is: "Currently Summoner as a job is reaching somewhat of a breaking point when it comes to the overall play mechanics, so we've halted work on Egi-glamour for the time being to shift focus."

"For the time being" is key here. That itself implies it isn't fully destroyed but rather they are shifting focus elsewhere for SMN. Also what the heck happens to SCH if the pet AI has been deemed to unwieldy. I honestly think is is more in reference to they can't just keep throwing in trances and big Demis or the rotation will become far too long and thus they need to evaluate what to do where to keep the rotation length reasonable.

Halt could mean permanently or temporarily. We don’t know which it is. I’m thinking if he said for good then that will mean other jobs with pets could see no future in ffxiv. He chose his words wisely. Scrapping pets for good means maybe no beast master etc. I’m taking it with a grain of salt. I’m sure summoner is getting a huge rework. I’m good with pets staying or going. I do however think it’s time for both summoner and sch pets ai code be updated or remove them because gameplay wise it’s just to much of a hassle with the ghosting and spells not even going off when you press the button. It’s sorta ridiculous now. 3 expansions in and still dealing with this mess.