Fix Summoner Once and For All in 6.0 Please!

**ItMe** · 05-08-2021 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Are you implying you know what the actual changes are? Time to spill the beans popoto!!

No, but the person I was quoting seems to and I'm confused.

**MagiusNecros** · 05-07-2021 11:35 AM

Summoner feels like Summoner during Bahamut and Phoenix. Blue Mage has usable summon attacks at the press of the button that makes Summoners jealous. Whipping out Ramuh's staff is the most hype crap you'll ever see.

**Grimoire-M** · 05-08-2021 03:45 PM

Honestly I don't even mind Summoner where it is right now. Aesthetically I think they've nailed it, and it doesn't need any major changes for 6.0. Blue Mage just looks like a better polished mess to me comparatively speaking, and that's simply what I expect out of that job.

However when it comes to Summoner's mechanics, I'm torn. Everyone wants pet AI to change, that's frankly a given, and my interpretation of the interview is that's likely what is getting re-tuned. I'm hoping they don't revert to any prior iteration of pets as what we currently have is the most consistent it's ever been but I acknowledge that it has variable delay, so they should focus on tuning up the consistency of what is there now across all ping levels, and ideally make the next version's mechanics scalable to future expansions. I think the flow of the current rotation works apart from some minor hiccups. Egi aren't engaging, but they make Demi-Egi feel distinct. Demi are frustrating and Bahamut in particular feels lackluster, but they make me appreciate what Egi get right, and I don't think Bahamut needs much of a push to be made more fun.

Where I want their focus to go is mostly on merging and trimming actions that are already context sensitive and similar, which necessitates that they alter the overall structure of Summoner's levelling curve to make better use of what they have now. The only major hope I have is that they bring back Aetherflow to Arcanist. I don't want anything else from pre-Shadowbringers Summoner, though if they wanted to they could bring back Spur if they wanted to give us Trance in ARR. The only reason I want Aetherflow is so it can fill the role that Trance and Energy Drain/Siphon currently do: act as a bridge in the rotation and grant us resources (Aetherflow Stacks, Trance access, ideally Enkindle/Deathflare resources as well with this overhaul) that we can use for our Demi-Burst phase. That is essentially what it did in those prior expansions to begin with. As long as they don't try to jam in Aethertrail or lockout nonsense with it I think the job would be fine with no major changes to the Heavensward through Shadowbringers part of its progression curve, though under the hood many of those actions would no longer be assigned to a hotbar.

The obvious merges are Enkindle with Deathflare and Enkindle Bahamut/Phoenix, plus Dreadwyrm Trance and Summon Bahamut. For trims retooling Energy Drain/Siphon as ARR-only versions of Fester/Painflare works perfectly. Ideally Egi Assault and Fester would be made into Summoner-exclusive actions. Given how Scholars miss Bane I think moving it and Ruin II down to pre-30 Summoner while moving Egi Assault and Fester up is fair, since they could then get a Scholar-exclusive version of Bane when they unlock Scholar without it feeling too weird (imo it would upgrade into Deployment Tactics, which would retain the Bane effect when used on enemies. It would balance out a longer cooldown with less damage falloff as well spread Chain Stratagem). That would eliminate some confusion during that section of the job change, and would allow Scholar to get Energy Drain and Aetherflow at low levels again.

As for what I'd like to see for Egi abilities? Probably move Titan Shield to a personal defensive cooldown and give Titan Egi another attack. I honestly miss it being an oGCD, and I don't think it's too much of an issue to add it at a 120s cooldown ala Manaward, or to give Garuda/Ifrit animations (Hell they could reuse the old Contagion/Radiant Shield particles with some tweaking). If not that, then maybe some kind of teleportation ability that doubles as a way to get the Egi to charge in to the boss. Basically we'd dash to our pet's current position, then either throw it or have it swoop to the center of the boss. It'd probably be an instant-cast GCD just to make it as consistent as the Egi Assaults.

Any other theoretical Egi suggestions depend on what they do to fix Enkindle with the merger. Ideally they'd shorten the cooldown to 5s so it can be shared across Bahamut/Phoenix. It doesn't affect Deathflare at all, but something else would have to fill in how we access it with Egi, or Summoner could get Trance and it in ARR with Spur (the most boring but effective option).

Demi-wise make Bahamut distinct from Phoenix by giving it a trait that enhances Fester/Painflare and gives them new animations. I'd like to see us have actual Akh Morn spam and I'm okay reusing or retuning assets to give us that. I would expect us to get more Demis in the future, but it can wait till 7.0 if they follow through properly on upgrading pet AI and making Egi into engaging filler for 6.0.

Oh, and please give Tri-Disaster charges and a lower cooldown instead of the reset mechanic and make us cast Devotion on our Egi or Demi instead of ordering our Egi to cast it and getting screwed in the Demi window. No other nonsense required. Those abilities will work better if they're completely isolated from interacting with the rest of Summoner's toolkit.

**Raikai** · 05-08-2021 09:12 PM

Mr. Happy put out a video with a brief interview with YoshiP and the topic of Egi glam was asked.

Naoki Yoshida:
Currently summoner as a job is reaching somewhat of a breaking point when it comes to the overall play mechanics, so we’ve halted work on Egi glamour for the time being in order to shift focus. There is a reason behind this, but we can’t share the details with you at the moment. When the time comes, I’ll be sure to properly share that information with everyone.

I mean... I've been saying this (and got flamed for it) for quite a while now, that they didn't shed any news on the topic like an ETA because they are reworking - heavily - SMN, and implementing a glamour system would be wasted work if 1 expansion later everything changed.

This statement near-confirms this. Not saying that Egis are going to be removed altogether, but I really suspect the way they function will be nothing like they do nowadays..

**Grimoire-M** · 05-08-2021 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Raikai

Mr. Happy put out a video with a brief interview with YoshiP and the topic of Egi glam was asked.

Naoki Yoshida:
Currently summoner as a job is reaching somewhat of a breaking point when it comes to the overall play mechanics, so we’ve halted work on Egi glamour for the time being in order to shift focus. There is a reason behind this, but we can’t share the details with you at the moment. When the time comes, I’ll be sure to properly share that information with everyone.

I mean... I've been saying this (and got flamed for it) for quite a while now, that they didn't shed any news on the topic like an ETA because they are reworking - heavily - SMN, and implementing a glamour system would be wasted work if 1 expansion later everything changed.

This statement near-confirms this. Not saying that Egis are going to be removed altogether, but I really suspect the way they function will be nothing like they do nowadays..

That was my interpretation as well. I doubt it's going to change much aesthetically, at least if they're properly retooling things under the hood to improve responsiveness. I wouldn't be surprised if they made pets client-side.

**Mykll** · 05-08-2021 10:44 PM

I don't see SE giving us back proper pets. And probably will be further removed somehow. I wouldn't be surprised if the pet spells turned into bard songs, where for 15 seconds you go Ifrit mode and a couple of spells does something or procs something different. That fades and you go Titan for 15. And on and on. So SMN is probably forever dead to me, and only levels up because it is tied to SCH.

**Raikai** · 05-08-2021 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by Mykll

I don't see SE giving us back proper pets. And probably will be further removed somehow. I wouldn't be surprised if the pet spells turned into bard songs, where for 15 seconds you go Ifrit mode and a couple of spells does something or procs something different. That fades and you go Titan for 15. And on and on. So SMN is probably forever dead to me, and only levels up because it is tied to SCH.

Probably they won't, because "proper pets" are really conceptually tied to a system that XIV's code can't technically support at the moment. It would work if they had plans to make improvements to their code (it would also probably make things better across the board for other jobs) but I'm not holding my breath.

I don't know what they have in mind, hence Yoshi-P's saying they can't reveal yet. We'll probably get it on Fanfest next week, but it's pretty much guaranteed that its gonna be different than it is now.

Regarding them turning into "bard songs" I don't think they would follow exactly that route. My personal prediction is focusing just in 3 or 4 trances with the summoned creature appearing at the end, behaving like the Automaton Queen.

**Axzeriuth** · 05-10-2021 05:04 PM

I think that Summoner has so much wasted potential and wasted skills. I think thats the case because it's designed to have your Summon pet fight along side you, but so many expansions later the pet code just doesn't work. Not for Summoner or Scholar. Pets feels slow and clunky and so many times a pet skill is wasted because it went off too late.

Get rid of the pet mechanic.

I'd rather your attacks be your summons. As an Arcanist you get Carbuncle and it can use Ruin, Bio, Miasma. As a summoner you learn to channel ifrit and now your single target attacks become ifrit attacks. You summon ifrit, it strikes, it disappears. You learn AoE skills that summon Garuda to stike. She appears, makes a whirlwind, she disappears. You learn defensive skills that summon Titan to protect you (stoneskin heh) and actually give him a use in battle instead of being wasted code.

As you grow as a summoner maybe you replace Ifrit with Shiva. Or learn a debuff skills that is Good King Moogle-Mog striking the mob. Or countless other possibilities.

I feel like this idea may turn Summoners play style more into what Black mage has but damn BLM feels powerful! Summoner has flying potatos.

As a side note I just saw there's level 40 Carbuncle skills. Oh god why would anyone still use Carbuncle at level 40. No other class has so much potential and yet so much skill wastage.

**ItMe** · 05-10-2021 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Axzeriuth

As a side note I just saw there's level 40 Carbuncle skills. Oh god why would anyone still use Carbuncle at level 40. No other class has so much potential and yet so much skill wastage.

... you mean Egi Assault 2?
SMN still uses carbuncle at level 80 yo. It's not like there's some benefit to not having one summoned.

**lbr** · 05-10-2021 09:45 PM

i'd prefer if summoner isn't a collection of 4 barely-interacting kits. What happens to the pet is not particularly important for me, though if I get to choose I'd rather get more different pets.

An idea i have is to turn all the pets into trance-style summons with a limited duration but by rotating between them you can have a 100% pet uptime.

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