Dark Knight 6.0: Wishlist

[shao32]

I do agree that the Souleater finisher doesn't really fit as a combo finisher, but based on the DRK in the background of the Sage reveal for 6.0, it looks like Souleater combo's here to stay sadly.

Well the Sage reveal trailer wasn't mean to show anything related to DRK and it's probably they actually didn't even get in to the job yet if we keep in mind they are still developing the unknow meelee so thats why the job stay there doing nothing but souleater combo (hey like actual gameplay wohoo), basically they just used the "job of the expansion" to show the new healer stuff since they need a party member for it but yeah there is a a almost 100% chance that Saouleater will stay to amaze us with his boring animation.

[Kalaam]

Well the Sage reveal trailer wasn't mean to show anything related to DRK and it's probably they actually didn't even get in to the job yet if we keep in mind they are still developing the unknow meelee so thats why the job stay there doing nothing but souleater combo (hey like actual gameplay wohoo), basically they just used the "job of the expansion" to show the new healer stuff since they need a party member for it but yeah there is a a almost 100% chance that Saouleater will stay to amaze us with his boring animation.

Eh, maybe Power Slash will come back for a new ability or combo !

[ArianeEwah]

Eh, maybe Power Slash will come back for a new ability or combo !

Unfortunately, SE doesn't have a history of re-introducing or bringing back actions, with very few and reasonable exceptions.

Those exceptions were Scholar only Miasma II in Stormblood - because they had no aoe spell except Bio+Miasma spread via Bane - Samurais Hagakure - because they introduced Tsubame Kaeshi, and thus a 60s rotation that had to clip a Sen for it to work - and... Scholar Energy Drain - because they had no action to spend overflowing Aetherflow gauge which really destoryed the feeling of the job. (Maybe there are some more exceptions, but rn I can't think of any)

A big chunk of the community wants Rampart being split from role actions into job actions as i.e. DRK Shadowskin, or some want the old SFX (or some mix of new and old) for GNB, WHM want Aero III back, Scholars want another dot, and probably many more cases of reverting stuff. If we look at the tank role especially, we can see how inconsistent SE has become in their decision-making of what is a role action. Rampart is a role action - thus all tanks have the same action - but tank stances, despite having all the very same effect, and are available at lvl 10, are not!?! All 30% mitigation actions are available at lvl 38 and with the exception of Vengence also have the same effects, yet aren't role actions either!?! If those actions were role actions and them available when synced becomig a problem, then why is Rampart a role action when it is learned at level 8! And if we look at the physical ranged dps role, with Tactician, Shield Samba, and Troubadour (Troubadour is learned later for whatever reason, but let's just ignore that for now) all have the same effect and cannot be stacked just like role actions, but they aren't role actions either!!!

Imho, the SE dev team has to redesign from the ground up, and to really think about what their goal is. For now it feels half-baked, like a pre-ordered game that has yet to be patched into an its finished product - pre-expansion, and release version mixed together is like building a garage ontop of a dog house - you can arrange it, but just doesn't seem fit.

[Recon1o6]

Unfortunately, SE doesn't have a history of re-introducing or bringing back actions, with very few and reasonable exceptions.

Those exceptions were Scholar only Miasma II in Stormblood - because they had no aoe spell except Bio+Miasma spread via Bane - Samurais Hagakure - because they introduced Tsubame Kaeshi, and thus a 60s rotation that had to clip a Sen for it to work - and... Scholar Energy Drain - because they had no action to spend overflowing Aetherflow gauge which really destoryed the feeling of the job. (Maybe there are some more exceptions, but rn I can't think of any)

A big chunk of the community wants Rampart being split from role actions into job actions as i.e. DRK Shadowskin, or some want the old SFX (or some mix of new and old) for GNB, WHM want Aero III back, Scholars want another dot, and probably many more cases of reverting stuff. If we look at the tank role especially, we can see how inconsistent SE has become in their decision-making of what is a role action. Rampart is a role action - thus all tanks have the same action - but tank stances, despite having all the very same effect, and are available at lvl 10, are not!?! All 30% mitigation actions are available at lvl 38 and with the exception of Vengence also have the same effects, yet aren't role actions either!?! If those actions were role actions and them available when synced becomig a problem, then why is Rampart a role action when it is learned at level 8! And if we look at the physical ranged dps role, with Tactician, Shield Samba, and Troubadour (Troubadour is learned later for whatever reason, but let's just ignore that for now) all have the same effect and cannot be stacked just like role actions, but they aren't role actions either!!!

Imho, the SE dev team has to redesign from the ground up, and to really think about what their goal is. For now it feels half-baked, like a pre-ordered game that has yet to be patched into an its finished product - pre-expansion, and release version mixed together is like building a garage ontop of a dog house - you can arrange it, but just doesn't seem fit.

Correction: SE does return abilities when they either run out of ideas or don't give a shit about the job (otherwise it wouldn't have been removed in the first place), but usually under a new coat of paint and bumped up far too many levels

Examples: 5.4's tornado kick is steel peak, sch's seraph is rouse, temperance is divine seal, bunshin is duality, nascent is bloodbath

you are right though, homogenising all the 20% tanks skills was a stupid idea, and a lot of the changes they have done over the years have boiled over this expansion with almost every thread wanting jobs turned back and redone because SE keeps designing things to be simpler and to their idea of how jobs should play when in fact people want them more complex (higher skill ceilings) and in line with their playstyle (instead of making them all the same)

[ArianeEwah]

Correction: [...]

I meant it's very unlikely that SE will return actions 1:1, be it animations or even in name/term. We will probably never see Scourge again, neither as a dot action nor in any other shape or form. The return of Energy Drain for Scholar is still a band-aid they haven't fixed, yet are still rolling with it! Same with Hagakure. They effed up, and it is as you said "they either run out of ideas or don't give a shit".

You are right, that some actions like temperance are essentially their predecessor like divine seal, but upgraded. (I wrote in another thread, it would make sense to keep Divine Seal and upgrade it Temperance via trait.) But the big difference is: even tho they have the same "intent", those are still "completely" new actions. We aren't going to see the old Power Slash animation nor its term in the next expac - unless anything drastically changes in SE dev team.

(And I am still tilted Inner Delirium has such a bad english localization for not being named "Blood Delirium", as in every other localization. It strains the true Delirium's name.)

[Shin96]

I agree with the rest of the posts. There's such a tiny chance that Scourge will be reinstated, you might as well just forget it. What I find even stranger is that PLD and GNB have actual DoT's while they went out on a limb removing Scourge for apparently no reason at all. Even if there was a potency issue it could have been fixed. Not only that, but them removing so many actions that were considered a staple for DRK makes me believe this.

The developement team really hates DRK. And I don't just mean hate, but they actively despise it. I'm not suggesting it's a conspiracy but consider it like part of your job you really hate doing but you ought to anyways. DRK is causing them headaches, and I assume that whenever they're working on it they scratch their heads in confusion. And I believe the reason for this is the design philosophy behind DRK. A Warrior and Paladin are perfectly accurate in their own description. A Warrior holds a big axe and a Paladin uses a sword and shield. These tanks for example are seen anywhere in other games and there is little you can do wrong. But DRK? From what I know, it was vastly different from any iteration so far. Using a Scythe, a sword, and so on. It seems they have alot of issues on deciding wether or not they are a heavy hitter or fast-paced hectic class as they were before. What you see now is an identity crisis that mostly stems from its inconsistencies with its current iteration. Some skills are better to use with a haste effect like before 5.0. In 3.0 DRK was an edgy class with many combos and skills to use. As time went one, they probably realized it was too "difficult" for the general playerbase and fast-forward in SHB it has become the poster poy for the expansion. What is it now? Literally a "royal" themed class that looks like a Paladin with a black paint job and a discount Warrior with Delirium. In my mind, DRK needs to be its own entity, and they should keep developers away that think they know it better than they do.

As for Endwalker, if visuals are anything to go by, the DRK artifact gear looks strangely similiar to the Chaos Burgeonet. Perhaps we are getting a better deal. One can only hope.

[Ultimatecalibur]

What I find even stranger is that PLD and GNB have actual DoT's while they went out on a limb removing Scourge for apparently no reason at all.

Paladin kept Goring Blade due to it being the core reason that PLD even had a rotation starting in HW instead of just spamming RoH like it did in ARR. Scourge and all the rest of the Single button DoTs (Fracture, Phlebotomize, Lead Shot and Touch of Death) which did not interact with mechanics as well as most of the damage down debuffs were removed in StB due to the shear number of DoTs and constant damage down Debuffs that could be put on targets in content involving 24+ players causing problems by quickly exceeding the visible buff/debuff limit and the max buff/debuff limit. DoT reliant jobs, such as SMN and BRD, had a lot of problems participating in World Boss FATEs, A-rank and S-rank Hunts and Alliance Raids due to this. Living Shadow is likely a temporary pet while acting as a DoT because it bypasses the risks of a debuff overload happening again.

As for why GNB has a DoT weaponskill on a 60s skill speed based cooldown? That is a bit of a mystery.

[Kabooa]

As for why GNB has a DoT weaponskill on a 60s skill speed based cooldown? That is a bit of a mystery.

DoTs are a little more thematic to the 'Fasty Swingy Swordy' types, but probably also because Nascent Chaos being a 920 would look silly next to a 1200, even accounting for the auto dcrit.

[Ultimatecalibur]

DoTs are a little more thematic to the 'Fasty Swingy Swordy' types, but probably also because Nascent Chaos being a 920 would look silly next to a 1200, even accounting for the auto dcrit.

Even then they could have distributed the 900 potency from the DoT over the rest of the GNB kit in other ways. As best I can figure Sonic Break and the Continuation combo's skill speed based cooldowns were an attempt to create a Job that got stronger the more Skill Speed it had; not that that would have worked with No Mercy's fixed 60s cooldown.

[Shin96]

Paladin kept Goring Blade due to it being the core reason that PLD even had a rotation starting in HW instead of just spamming RoH like it did in ARR. Scourge and all the rest of the Single button DoTs (Fracture, Phlebotomize, Lead Shot and Touch of Death) which did not interact with mechanics as well as most of the damage down debuffs were removed in StB due to the shear number of DoTs and constant damage down Debuffs that could be put on targets in content involving 24+ players causing problems by quickly exceeding the visible buff/debuff limit and the max buff/debuff limit. DoT reliant jobs, such as SMN and BRD, had a lot of problems participating in World Boss FATEs, A-rank and S-rank Hunts and Alliance Raids due to this. Living Shadow is likely a temporary pet while acting as a DoT because it bypasses the risks of a debuff overload happening again.

As for why GNB has a DoT weaponskill on a 60s skill speed based cooldown? That is a bit of a mystery.

And still they could have repurposed it without removing an iconic animation. I think if they actually bothered they could have found ways to make it work instead of cutting it altogether. I for one want to see Scourge back, if it doesn't it's whatevs. Many people liked it and want it back. Again, I can only rule in favour of what I think would make DRK less boring to play. Adding a DoT could alleviate some of the visual deprivation you get by spamming 1-2-3 with an action weaved in-between. That is, if they don't intend on changing the Souleater combo.