!! Fix Healer Rescue

[Goji1639]

I'm not too familiar with Savage raids, so I can't say to what extent turning Rescue into a free revive buff would break them. There's almost always a simple solution to issues like this, though.

Like, for instance, you could turn the Rescue off toggle into something that only works in DF, or simply leave it out of whatever the most current prog content is. The problems that people have with Rescue; it being a troll button, incompetent use, etc. aren't really issues for statics running prog anyways. These are issues that are almost exclusively limited to PuGs.

Not to say that your idea wouldn't work, I just feel it's unnecessary to put much effort into 'balancing' this. If this ends up making Healers considerably more versatile in their ability to res then good for them.

[Doozer]

The problems that people have with Rescue; it being a troll button,

There are plenty of things people do in-game that can be used to troll, but those things don't get removed or modified. Players are encouraged to do things like blacklist (if relevant) or submit a report. If someone is using Rescue to troll you, report them instead of ruining the usefulness of it for everyone. Plenty of other things in the game are used to troll, grief, or harass people, that doesn't mean the entire game needs to bend around them. Report them for causing you problems and move on. If it's not worth your time to report them, clearly it's not that big of an issue to you.

People get reported and disciplined for spamming skills in cities, but that doesn't mean the game is changed so no one can use any combat skills in hub areas. Sure you can turn off visual effects, but for some of them the sound is the worst part, which can't be toggled. So, instead, those people can be reported. Get it? There's already a solution: Report them if they troll you.

[hydralus]

People get reported and disciplined for spamming skills in cities, but that doesn't mean the game is changed so no one can use any combat skills in hub areas.[/B]

That'd be fine by me if they changed that, too. In fact it seems like a pretty simple fix.

[Goji1639]

There are plenty of things people do in-game that can be used to troll, but those things don't get removed or modified. Players are encouraged to do things like blacklist (if relevant) or submit a report. If someone is using Rescue to troll you, report them instead of ruining the usefulness of it for everyone. Plenty of other things in the game are used to troll, grief, or harass people, that doesn't mean the entire game needs to bend around them. Report them for causing you problems and move on. If it's not worth your time to report them, clearly it's not that big of an issue to you.

People get reported and disciplined for spamming skills in cities, but that doesn't mean the game is changed so no one can use any combat skills in hub areas. Sure you can turn off visual effects, but for some of them the sound is the worst part, which can't be toggled. So, instead, those people can be reported. Get it? There's already a solution: Report them if they troll you.

Report what exactly? Unless they're kind enough to clearly state in chat for the GMs that they were being malicious, not much anyone can do. It's not against the rules to just make a lot of "mistakes" with one of your abilities.

Also, the other problem is incompetent use of Rescue, which can be just as annoying.

Snip

I just don't really see the need to "balance" this for the content it's intended for. For simplicity sake I'd rather just turn it into a flat buff that negates the potential negative impact a blocked Rescue might have on the Healer. Revive becomes free is just a bit less convoluted than a lot of 'this if he lives, that if he dies after a certain amount of time, etc.'

But like I said, I'm not really against your idea.

[Doozer]

Report what exactly? Unless they're kind enough to clearly state in chat for the GMs that they were being malicious, not much anyone can do. It's not against the rules to just make a lot of "mistakes" with one of your abilities.

I don't know how to explain to you that you need to learn how to communicate with others like a normal person. Let me act out a scenario for you so you understand it better:

Healer: *Rescues you*
You: Can you please not do that? I find it to be disruptive and unnecessary.
[Later]
Healer: *Rescues you again*
You: I've asked you to stop. If you continue I'll report you for griefing/trolling.
Healer: *Rescues you a third time*

After this point, you would be justified in reporting them after the duty is complete. You're right, a person rescuing you with no other communication does not have enough evidence to report. Equally, it does not have enough evidence to prove they were actually trolling you. Maybe they were "incompetent", but trying to help you and failing is not an affront to you. A single person making a single mistake does not warrant completely changing a skill and the dynamic of PUG play. Unless it's way more widely used as trolling like you claim, in which case, take matters into your own hands. Set your boundaries, and if they don't respect them, report them. Did no one teach you this growing up?

For reference when you report them (because you'll do that if it really bothers you), this sort of behaviour would fall under "obstruction of play", because it's preventing you from playing like you normally would, since you say it disrupts your ability to perform skills and participate in the duty.

I'm giving you advice. This is not a debate. Learn how to handle when things that you don't like happen to you, instead of demanding the world around you be moulded to your liking. Taking action against people causing you grief is a much more realistic approach than the entire game being changed for a handful of people that are sensitive about someone interacting with them.

[Goji1639]

I don't know how to explain to you that you need to learn how to communicate with others like a normal person. Let me act out a scenario for you so you understand it better:

Healer: *Rescues you*
You: Can you please not do that? I find it to be disruptive and unnecessary.
[Later]
Healer: *Rescues you again*
You: I've asked you to stop. If you continue I'll report you for griefing/trolling.
Healer: *Rescues you a third time*

After this point, you would be justified in reporting them after the duty is complete. You're right, a person rescuing you with no other communication does not have enough evidence to report. Equally, it does not have enough evidence to prove they were actually trolling you. Maybe they were "incompetent", but trying to help you and failing is not an affront to you. A single person making a single mistake does not warrant completely changing a skill and the dynamic of PUG play. Unless it's way more widely used as trolling like you claim, in which case, take matters into your own hands. Set your boundaries, and if they don't respect them, report them. Did no one teach you this growing up?

For reference when you report them (because you'll do that if it really bothers you), this sort of behaviour would fall under "obstruction of play", because it's preventing you from playing like you normally would, since you say it disrupts your ability to perform skills and participate in the duty.

I'm giving you advice. This is not a debate. Learn how to handle when things that you don't like happen to you, instead of demanding the world around you be moulded to your liking. Taking action against people causing you grief is a much more realistic approach than the entire game being changed for a handful of people that are sensitive about someone interacting with them.

So, basically spend the whole run getting yanked around while politely asking them to stop, report them at the end, and then nothing happens because you still can't prove it was malicious. Hell, if I was the Healer I'd just say "Sorry I keep accidentally hitting that hotkey," in chat before the run ends. There you go, hard evidence it wasn't malicious.

Also, incompetent use of the ability is a more frequent thing and still annoying. There's zero reason not to address it.

I'm not sure why you're so against them adding something simple to address this problematic ability... Do you believe it would seriously set their development team back? Do you have reason to believe they're going to drag you into their offices and make you code it? Or are you just kinda pissy for no real reason?

[Doozer]

So, basically spend the whole run getting yanked around while politely asking them to stop, report them at the end, and then nothing happens because you still can't prove it was malicious. Hell, if I was the Healer I'd just say "Sorry I keep accidentally hitting that hotkey," in chat before the run ends. There you go, hard evidence it wasn't malicious.

You clearly don't understand what I'm saying, so I really don't know how else to give you advice on the matter. Literally just learn how to talk to people and express your boundaries. If people ignore that, even if they say, "oops I hit Rescue on you by accident 6 times lol" they can still get in trouble for it.

Or are you just kinda pissy for no real reason?

Nevermind, I see what the problem is. You perceive someone disagreeing with you as "pissy". Normally I don't jump the gun on something like this, but I feel like you need to see a therapist. You see party members as enemies, you think everyone is out to get you, and you assume everyone that sees things differently is angry. All of that combined seems like you have some serious issues you haven't addressed. There's really no need to take it out on others, especially when the person you're talking to is trying to give you advice. I'm trying to help you because I'm 99% certain they will never change Rescue, so I'm explaining an alternative that can help punish people who are griefing you. Though honestly now that I've seen how easily you snap at anyone that talks to you, I get the feeling this might've happened to you once and now you've got a vendetta against anyone that thinks Rescue is useful. Whatever army you're fighting in your head, you need to separate that from everyone you come in contact with. Sort your life out, mate.

[Goji1639]

You clearly don't understand what I'm saying, so I really don't know how else to give you advice on the matter. Literally just learn how to talk to people and express your boundaries. If people ignore that, even if they say, "oops I hit Rescue on you by accident 6 times lol" they can still get in trouble for it.

Nevermind, I see what the problem is. You perceive someone disagreeing with you as "pissy". Normally I don't jump the gun on something like this, but I feel like you need to see a therapist. You see party members as enemies, you think everyone is out to get you, and you assume everyone that sees things differently is angry. All of that combined seems like you have some serious issues you haven't addressed. There's really no need to take it out on others, especially when the person you're talking to is trying to give you advice. I'm trying to help you because I'm 99% certain they will never change Rescue, so I'm explaining an alternative that can help punish people who are griefing you. Though honestly now that I've seen how easily you snap at anyone that talks to you, I get the feeling this might've happened to you once and now you've got a vendetta against anyone that thinks Rescue is useful. Whatever army you're fighting in your head, you need to separate that from everyone you come in contact with. Sort your life out, mate.

They can get in trouble for it, but likely won't. If malicious intent isn't provable I'll just have to hope I get a GM that has some kind of axe to grind. It isn't a solution; it's just you being dismissive of the problem.

And all of this "you should see a therapist; you have serious issues man!" because I noticed how pissy you are is downright hilarious. I didn't realize I was dealing with such a delicate little princess. I'll try my absolute bestest to not hurt your feelings going forward.

[Packetdancer]

I'm not too familiar with Savage raids, so I can't say to what extent turning Rescue into a free revive buff would break them. There's almost always a simple solution to issues like this, though.

Like, for instance, you could turn the Rescue off toggle into something that only works in DF, or simply leave it out of whatever the most current prog content is. The problems that people have with Rescue; it being a troll button, incompetent use, etc. aren't really issues for statics running prog anyways. These are issues that are almost exclusively limited to PuGs.

Out of curiosity, do you mind if I ask why you don't like the proposed solution? I feel like it actually addresses all the points in this thread.

1. DPS who dislike being repositioned because they are capable of avoiding the damage themselves can reject Rescues. As they will not die, there is literally no consequence for their doing so.
2. Healers who use Rescue to avoid having to spend 2400 MP on someone they can otherwise save will still get a lower-cost rez if someone they could've saved turns down that save and then dies.
3. Given that even a failed Rescue benefits a healer, it no longer is necessary to check if someone's got an indicator that they can't be Rescued; no additional mental tax on healers by adding One More Thing to maintain situational awareness of.
4. The benefit of a lower-cost instant rez is counterbalanced by a higher rez penalty, meaning that it's not a path leading to a mountain of free cheese. And the higher rez penalty is one already present in all content, thus one we know the devs feel is balanced.

As for restricting it so it only works 'in DF content', I assume you mean 'content where any one person is eligible for commendations at the end' (i.e., PUGs). Because even Extreme/Savage/Ultimate stuff is queued into via the Duty Finder (albeit under the High End Duties tab); it's just that in NA/EU situations, you will nearly always do so by assembling a full group in Party Finder first. (It's also worth noting that in Japan, they use Duty Finder matching even on Extreme and Savage, and the game is designed with the expectation that people are doing so, so you will have people eligible for commends at the end; the Party Finder prerequisite is purely a social construct within the NA/EU datacenters.)

But I think that's sort of irrelevant; I literally see no reason that this solution couldn't be applied globally. It both addresses what you're asking for ("I don't want to be Rescued, ever") and the concerns of myself and other healers, and does so in what I think is a balanced manner that should work out fine in both PUG/roulette scenarios and even in statics if you have that one DPS who insists on greeding and hates being Rescued out at the last second.

You say there's a simple solution to "issues like this", but so far as I can see, there's literally not an issue with the proposed method of disabling Rescue. Thus, nothing in need of further solution, simple or otherwise.