!! Fix Healer Rescue

[Goji1639]

Snip.

This is why a toggle would work. I understand that there's a lot of people who want/need the help, and some Healers who actually do use Rescue well. They can keep that up, have little conversations about Rescue's use and make it into a whole thing. I'm just not interested in any of that and don't want to have to think about it; so let people like me opt out.

Even if I make a mistake, I'd honestly rather take the hit and possibly die. I'd rather actually see the consequences of my mistakes; it helps me learn precisely the best way to deal with mechanics.

[Packetdancer]

This is why a toggle would work.

Except it wouldn't.

Imagine you had a utility skill on your job. It can be really useful in some situations, but it takes a while to go off and the timing is wonky. As a result, to ensure it works you pretty much need to stop DPSing for a GCD or two. And when you do use it, you need to react fast because of that timing issue.

Now imagine that in addition, sometimes the skill just... doesn't work. You click the button and it makes the "whonk" error noise. But you never know when that'll happen! Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, seemingly at the whim of the universe.

How often would you use that skill, versus just writing it off and continuing to DPS?

That toggle is "the seemingly random whim of the universe" in the scenario.

I can see both sides of the argument—and like I said, I'm willing to be convinced otherwise and to discuss if it's a good mechanic overall for fostering a less-hostile environment when it comes to people trolling with Rescue or Provoke/Shirk or whatever—but it's why I personally would just write Rescue off entirely and remove it from the bar.

[Aldora]

This so much, if healer have to check the person first to see if they got the disable rescue debuff/buff whatever ( in the middle of combat ) it would already be to late to use it.

Indeed. It's like i said in my post earlier. You need to make a split second decision if you want to use Rescue or not. First, you need see the player, then select them and use the ability before the "damage" from the mechanic is being registered by the server. This usually happens within a few seconds. Add latency to that, and you end up trying to rescue someone (with good intentions) and the server still registers the target as being hit. So, if you would need to check of the target has that "don't rescue me" debuff, you would add to the "load" of that decision making process on the healer.

It's all fine and dandy that the target doesn't want to be rescued, like in the case where Goji1639 said:

I'm just not interested in any of that and don't want to have to think about it; so let people like me opt out.

Even if I make a mistake, I'd honestly rather take the hit and possibly die. I'd rather actually see the consequences of my mistakes; it helps me learn precisely the best way to deal with mechanics.

That maybe true for a player like Goji1639, but not entirely "fair" for those who need to raise him because of it. Being pulled out of an AoE could also serve as a reminder that you were not in the right spot and learn from it.

The cost for raising someone is quite high, so you want to avoid it as much as possible. For example, i was in a Ridorana run last night as a RDM (i like to switch between WHM and RDM for the alliance raids) and i told the healers that i'll assist with raising party members. I ended up using Verraise 19 times in 1 run, which is a whopping 45,600 MP. So, it's safe to say that i was running on fumes during a few of those fights, even with Lucid Dreaming.

There are cases (i've experienced a few of them myself) where those 19 deaths all came from 1 specific party member. In that case, the player didn't really learn from his/her mistakes. Could it be prevented with Rescue? Not entirely, no. But, it would've helped nonetheless.

[Goji1639]

That maybe true for a player like Goji1639, but not entirely "fair" for those who need to raise him because of it. Being pulled out of an AoE could also serve as a reminder that you were not in the right spot and learn from it.

The cost for raising someone is quite high, so you want to avoid it as much as possible. For example, i was in a Ridorana run last night as a RDM (i like to switch between WHM and RDM for the alliance raids) and i told the healers that i'll assist with raising party members. I ended up using Verraise 19 times in 1 run, which is a whopping 45,600 MP. So, it's safe to say that i was running on fumes during a few of those fights, even with Lucid Dreaming.

There are cases (i've experienced a few of them myself) where those 19 deaths all came from 1 specific party member. In that case, the player didn't really learn from his/her mistakes. Could it be prevented with Rescue? Not entirely, no. But, it would've helped nonetheless.

So don't revive me if you can't afford to. There's very little content in this game where being 1 DPS down matters at all. The only way to make things engaging most of the time is to challenge yourself to optimize, and in that regard the Healer is the only enemy in the instance I can't predict.

I've leveled 2 Healers and have never once actually needed Rescue for anything. All of this pretending it's some great clutch ability that "OMG How would we function without it!" is just kind of petty. Like when a kid has a toy he doesn't even like and rarely ever plays with, but if you try to take that toy away it's suddenly the most important thing in his life and he'd rather die than part with it. Rescue with a toggle would be pretty much the same level of useless as Rescue without it. The ability was never good, but at least with a toggle it's not a constant potential nuisance.

[Gemina]

So don't revive me if you can't afford to. There's very little content in this game where being 1 DPS down matters at all. The only way to make things engaging most of the time is to challenge yourself to optimize, and in that regard the Healer is the only enemy in the instance I can't predict.

If looking at the majority of content, healers and tanks don't need you at all. Since there is no enrage in the majority of content, they can twiddle down the boss HP little by little until it's dead and then be on their merry way. You're along for the ride because you bring deeps, and hopefully a lot of it so things die fast. If you're in the danger zone, a healer doesn't give a crap about where you are in your current rotation; they know that if you die, your DPS falls to 0. A healer isn't going to rescue you if you are already safe. If they do, it was more likely done by accident than to deliberately troll you. After 16 pages of players basically telling you this over and over again, you still don't get it and likely never will.

You see the healers in your group as enemies. I can't even begin to tell you how flawed your logic is.

I've leveled 2 Healers and have never once actually needed Rescue for anything. All of this pretending it's some great clutch ability that "OMG How would we function without it!" is just kind of petty. Like when a kid has a toy he doesn't even like and rarely ever plays with, but if you try to take that toy away it's suddenly the most important thing in his life and he'd rather die than part with it. Rescue with a toggle would be pretty much the same level of useless as Rescue without it. The ability was never good, but at least with a toggle it's not a constant potential nuisance.

You've leveled two healers? Really? I would think you would be far more understanding of the use of Rescue if this was the case. I am guessing that you oppose the skill so much that you still wouldn't use it even if a golden, non-consequential opportunity struck you in the face. If you've leveled two healers and took them into anything with a moderate threat level, then you would also know that healer utility quickly becomes redundant a few weeks after a patch, and that's for current content. It is already redundant in the previous content. What this means is that healers are left with very little to do other than spam one button over and over again until someone gets low enough to use an ogcd heal on them.

Rescue along with hard casted raises are really the only thing that brings any kind of engaging gameplay for healers. They are the most difficult skills in a healer's arsenal to pull off successfully. Rescue is one of few skills at a healer's disposal that remains relevant in all content because there is always someone who thinks they can skip a mechanic that kills them. Examples of this are Lunar Curtain from Aemon, or Ancient Quake from Xande. I don't even know how many times I have pulled the player with the purple marker that requires a stack, and players with prey who drag the tether all over the map because they have no idea that it is killing them. This is in WoD. A lv 50 alliance raid.

It actually is a godly skill. It can save and kill players so what would you call it? Your issue is that you think this skill somehow exists only to ruin your day. Your child and toy metaphor actually applies more to you than it does the game's healers. If you can't improvise your DPS around a healer rescue, I am inclined to believe that the simplest of mechanics causes you to lose DPS constantly. What happens if you are bound, or placed in a geol? Do you seriously lose it? Does the sky fall? I'm genuinely curious.

[Goji1639]

Snip

In easy content where my only real challenge is optimization Healers are my most potent enemies. Rescue is an unavoidable interrupt that can hit me at any time. Not saying that to be adversarial towards healers, it's just a fact.

Next, Healing becoming boring and stale doesn't justify Rescue's existence at all. If for some reason Rescue is the only thing that makes you capable of enduring the monotony of Healing rotations then a toggle won't change things. In fact it'll add another layer of awareness needed to use it effectively.

And finally, it's not godlike. It's extremely situational and because of how the server ticks it mostly sucks in those situations. It's probably the most effective troll button in the game, though.

[Gemina]

In easy content where my only real challenge is optimization Healers are my most potent enemies. Rescue is an unavoidable interrupt that can hit me at any time. Not saying that to be adversarial towards healers, it's just a fact.

Next, Healing becoming boring and stale doesn't justify Rescue's existence at all. If for some reason Rescue is the only thing that makes you capable of enduring the monotony of Healing rotations then a toggle won't change things. In fact it'll add another layer of awareness needed to use it effectively.

And finally, it's not godlike. It's extremely situational and because of how the server ticks it mostly sucks in those situations. It's probably the most effective troll button in the game, though.

Wrong on all accounts. I can't even count how many times a KO of mine was the result of someone else screwing up. I don't consider any of those players my enemy. I don't think they're trolling me. Again, I fail to comprehend your ability to optimize against the simplest of mechanics (where the enemy is constantly trying to make you lose GCDs) if a healer rescue causes you so much grieving.

You're also missing the point when I talk about Rescue providing some engagement for healers, but I'm not going to go into it again. If you want to use an argument such optimization being your only challenge in easy content, what do you think the healer has to do if you or anyone takes avoidable damage? What about a tank who doesn't use their mitigation skills properly, or at all during a large pull? Or if someone dies? This still happens in easy content, and even a swiftcasted rezz still costs me a GCD, dude. In any case, your derp results in me having to press 2 instead of my monotonous1. This is not optimal. You are ruining my experience, my game, and my day.

I'd definitely say it is godlike especially in your case because it holds so much power over you. Server ticks are also an irrelevant argument. If a healer uses rescue on you, and you still get hit, you were getting hit anyway. It's not like they caused you to get hit, unless they deliberately pull you into an AoE, which has never been a case of your argument or the situation you're describing. You have consistently argued that Rescue is throwing off your rotation and making it difficult for you to optimize. Furthermore, if you tried to report a healer misusing Rescue when footage shows them pulling you to a safe spot prior to incoming damage registering on the server, good luck. You call them trolls, and it's just as easy for me to tell you to stay out of the bad.

[Goji1639]

Snip

Someone making a mistake playing their own character is far more forgivable than someone making a mistake while forcibly taking control of my character. Intent doesn't matter, ripping control of someone else's character away from them is a bold statement. If you're going to do it you'd better be 100% sure you're doing it right, or it's going to be received poorly. Also, it's impossible to optimize around Rescue because you don't know when it's coming and you can't mitigate it. That's what makes Healers a bigger threat than normal AI enemies.

As for providing more engagement for Healers, what can I say... Sorry Healing is boring but Rescue isn't a good solution. It's an obnoxious hindrance that barely works even in the rare situations where it could be useful; the vast majority of healers don't bother with it, I'm guessing the people here defending it haven't actually used it in weeks.

As for the ability being godlike, I've already admitted it's a godlike troll button. The fact that it's a way to mess with people constantly without incriminating yourself in chat makes it bulletproof. If I were someone who hated people and only really played this game to mess with them I would DEFINITELY main a Healer.

"omg the fact that rescue is out there and can hit me anytime, so I'm scared" is the best argument I've read so far.

Rescue is great in E12S sometimes, get that one person in the titan stack on-time, or else you, the healer dies. Yeah try to defend that, casual.

Not scared necessarily, just a little annoyed that certain poorly conceived abilities make my teammates obstacles when they should be allies.

Boy if there's any psychologists running around here, I bed they'd have a field day with how you think your party members (aka your team members) are your enemies. You might want to talk to someone about that, mate.

Like I said it's nothing personal, I'm just stating facts. Rescue puts me at odds with my team; with the Healer anyways. A toggle would fix that. World of Warcraft added a toggle for that exact reason, so why not do it here to?

[Doozer]

In easy content where my only real challenge is optimization Healers are my most potent enemies.

Boy if there's any psychologists running around here, I bed they'd have a field day with how you think your party members (aka your team members) are your enemies. You might want to talk to someone about that, mate.

[Semirhage]

If looking at the majority of content, healers and tanks don't need you at all. Since there is no enrage in the majority of content, they can twiddle down the boss HP little by little until it's dead and then be on their merry way. You're along for the ride because you bring deeps, and hopefully a lot of it so things die fast. If you're in the danger zone, a healer doesn't give a crap about where you are in your current rotation; they know that if you die, your DPS falls to 0. A healer isn't going to rescue you if you are already safe. If they do, it was more likely done by accident than to deliberately troll you. After 16 pages of players basically telling you this over and over again, you still don't get it and likely never will.

You see the healers in your group as enemies. I can't even begin to tell you how flawed your logic is.

Don't you know that the DPS are the star around which the other roles merely revolve? What a DPS main wants is more important than what a healer wants. If your utility inconveniences them in the slightest, you shall have it removed. You're talking to people who are telling you out of one side of their mouths that one dead player is immaterial to the success of a run, but two seconds of lost uptime to perform your role? How very dare you. The entire instance is ruined and it's all your fault. Sit back and spam cure when your DPS betters tell you to.

That said, Rescue definitely needs some improvements. Last I checked its activation is laggy as hell and the fact that it yanks the person next to you instead of into the same spot as your hitbox is really janky.