6.0 Story Speculations

[Vyrerus]

Someone pointed this out to me and now it won't leave my mind. Where the heck are the Lopporits?

In a hole on ze moon. Probably in an area they don't want to show us just yet.

[Enkidoh]

In a hole on ze moon. Probably in an area they don't want to show us just yet.

Considering they're FFIV's Namingways in all but name, the Lopporits are definetely in a hidden place under the lunar surface just like the Namingways were. But as always, we'll find out soon enough.

[vormela]

I thought about this some more...and themes (it is the weekend and I was up on Friday and have Chatty Hands).

1. Civil war/schism
Goes back to the beginning. Also manifests in fandom discussions. Which side is right? Azem never had a choice or didn't make a choice. Sharlayan and events that play out will show us that we have to make that choice now and that the future is uncertain because who knows which side we will choose. Like Simba, we are going to have to take adult responsibility for Azem since he/she wasn't given or didn't take that choice the first time around. It would also give our character a final CHOICE to define ourselves, whereas we have been led to believe this whole time that we are walking in another's shoes (Hydaelyn, Azem, etc). And that Azem was "above it all" in a way by not taking sides. We know IRL that you have to. And we see it over and over in-game with Alphinaud's diplomacy.

I believe it won't make a difference except on a personal level because both "sides" (convocation and Venat's group) have sacrificed themselves already. Deep down, no one wants the suffering and calamity. The only difference I think it will make is that we get to lead one soul out of the lifestream on our way back, like in the myths. Also sort of recalling how travel to the First required latching onto an object or only being able to bring one person at a time.

2. Immortality/shards
The people who are unsundered are immortal. They are working to make everyone else immortal. Things in Emet-Selch's character development make me think that he has always harbored desires to return to mortality ("I should be the one to sigh," them showing his footsteps in just about every cutscene, his eventual siding with us or humanity/mankind). G'raha has experienced immortality (as far as we know--I feel like the personal heart-to-hearts with Emet-Selch and rivalry make it seem like G'raha could be more ancient than we think) in a way. Our real gift will be putting both sides' immortality to rest.

There is also the problem of Zenos, someone who is immortal but very human in other ways (he runs on base instinct and the will to fight us or...something more uh, passionate). I believe he is our other shards. He is forcing the battle of who will eat the other one, just like Ryne and Minfilia/Ascilla. He thinks it is a battle between equals, but our power of Friendship has reunited us with Ardbert, and our being 8/14 made Emet-Selch see that we could finally win decisively against Zenos (he had been looking for Ardbert but couldn't find him because of the Warriors of Darkness thing, maybe, and that he was in limbo as a ghost--would explain why he was lurking around ruins to find ancient depictions of the First's hero). Mankind's goodwill, creativity, inquisitive nature, and our magical force of Friendship (the only friendship Zenos has) will win out over base instinct, and mankind will not be "finished."

EDIT: Okay, so we are 9 fragments...I forgot. Maybe Zenos just doesn't care and wants to get vored.

[vormela]

ctd.

3. Katabasis
We are facing death and have already fought Hades. Zenos, the embodiment of the reaper/death, is coming for us and forcing the issue. We will go to heck. I think Hades and also another member of Venat's side (whether it is Venat or Emmeroloth or someone else -- the flower lady) will be the chief "dieties" of heck and we will ultimately have to "find our truth" there so we can come back and make our final decision. I think we will get to bring one of them back with us, but only one. It would be too cruel to not bring back the Mother or the Boyfriend, and they are pushing the boyfriend thing hard in the trailer (which I know has the effect of repulsing many people but to me the handholding Amaurotines killed my heart). I think the story direction for that detail might be added because...look around. The world is going through its own calamity right now even more than when Endwalker was in the initial planning stages, I'm sure. There would be the effect of giving people a choice meaningful only to them.

4. Forgiveness
I still don't really grasp the concept of sin-eaters and explaining it with dialogue won't help. I don't know whose sins we are forgiving--mankind in general (the names of the sin-eaters suggest that) or the more personal implication that we are forgiving ancient sins, or the personal sins of Emet-Selch under the influence of Zodiark (and could we decide the sins we were forgiving were also the sins of Venat's faction, in a way??). All I know is that by eating them, we untempered Hades and forgave him of his sins because they balanced out with the darkness (that may have been inflicted upon him by someone else). This is assuming sins are like universal crimes against humanity and not of a specific religious stance. If Emet-Selch was Amon and all of these other really shady characters then it would be hard for most of us to forgive him.

In the end, we will provide a certain forgiveness for the ancient battles of ideology, just like we did for Eulmore (which is why it made Emet-Selch cry...he was rooting for us to play that role this whole time).

[vormela]

ctd

5. Faithfulness/deceit and acting in good/bad faith
They presented Emet-Selch as basically Satan tempting us with our desire for knowledge, his jealousy over the Exarch/WoL, our tightrope-walking between "is he doing this in good faith." I am not familiar with Christianity and am about halfway through Paradise Lost and he is basically portrayed as Satan. This turned out at the end to be kind of a misportrayal either on his end or through our faith's/upbringing's influence.

Personally I think he was acting a part and desperately didn't want us to see through the façade (why he was so dramatic in the scene where you meet him and gradually he becomes a very emotionally vulnerable character and eventually snaps at the end to become an abusive, hysterical fanatic trying to persecute you and delete you from existence...which is what he probably knew his being tempered would do, but he had found a way through the restrictions put upon him to win his friend over to Zodiark's side (his tempered self's will), win his friend back (his personal will, though it won't turn out like he wanted with our immortality...he will have to become mortal and join US), and in the meantime untemper himself).

In Paradise Lost so far, I find Adam incredibly boring and don't see why he has to be an intermediary between God and Eve. Milton makes Satan very relatable and seems to take his side. I think these archetypes and stories about ancient sins and schisms force people to either lash out at each other or cause them to question their perspective...one of those reactions is constructive.

6. Our (and Fandaniel's) allegiance to the convocation or Venat's faction
I have more about Fandaniel but I think his lack of clear goal or allegiance (his scratched-out convocation stone--who did that is the real question I have!) and the fact that he, like us, will ultimately decide the "fate" of the star (It is 14 vs the 12 now (ETA: MIGHT be), and he is a potential defector, and so are we--and he knows that if he or Zenos knows of our secret 14th seat). This battle of near-halves would hearken back to our battle of the wills with Zenos if he is our other shards, to all the elaboration upon the fact that half the ancients sacrificed themselves... Fandaniel ultimately has to take our side and we have to take his for the calamity to be over and for this battle to be decisive and for humanity to go on. We are like hostages in several ways this expansion (as seen on the throne, and in our indecision about who to side with...maybe we will be able to relate more to Venat and to Emet-Selch's time as Solus and decisions they had to make as people of power who had to make choices and execute them). Will we use the Azem stone or will we use our flower power???


I had to get this out because it kept me up all Friday night. I really enjoy the discussions about this wonderful story and it just makes me sad when they degrade into shaming people.

[Alleo]

About the trailer

Its interesting and at the same time frustrating to watch these trailers in different languages.
Different VAs, different lines with different meanings. I am left to wonder which one is right.

In the german version Lady of Light does not say anything about the flower being some test of conviction. Its just a guide and she says that even in our darkest hour we should try to find joy. Bascially she is just saying that we should continue on.

Then we have that new voice where its says "Come, let me relieve you of your burden. You've suffered enough." in the english version. In german its "Let's end the suffering, what else is left to hope for?" Honestly when I watched the german version I thought it was meant as something more positive. (Bit harder to convey with the english translation) I thought it was "lets end this, thats all we have left" or something like that. That they have to continue fighting because thats all they can do. With the english (and french) version it really sound more like "give up". I guess maybe they meant it like that in the german version too? Strangely the female voice in the german version sounded way more sad when she said it.

The most confusing parts are toward the end, when we see the Ancient shades and probably Zodiark (who suddenly has horns). I am gonna be honest. I have no idea if that even is Fandaniel speaking in the german version because the male voice speaks so slowly. Its so different towards the way Fandaniel normally talks that I really cant say if its him. The last voiced line with the WoL on the moon could also not be Emet. I am uncertain there too. Some even say that the lines in Japanese sounds like Elidibus VA.

So what do I take from it? I do believe that they want to confuse us by showing Fandaniel while playing those lines. I dont think that he is speaking them, at least not now.
What I do believe is, that we are seeing an echo version of a time when Zodiark was summoned and the voice we are hearing is begging Zodiark to help them and to restore the planet to its past self. Maybe we are able to witness that event.

In german the last line then asked if we really want to destroy this beautiful world. What if this was towards Venats group when they summoned Hydaelyn? I really think that these lines are completely out of context.

The last part with Alphinaud is hopefully a red herring. They really love to do that in trailers but until now it meant that the person in question was always save at the end. I pray that this is the case too.

Now a bit of thinking out loud after finally seeing true Ancients and not just those shades.

I think we will see this in a flashback or echo version through Venats eyes. Maybe she even walks along our side thus why she does not do something when that one Ancient got caught.

I still find it very interesting that she (if she is showing us this) is able to remember these people while the Ascians cant. Maybe this shows that deep down the Ascians just fought for this goal because they were tempered but could not even remember those that they lost? Even Hades shows us just masks in his fight. It would have been imo so much better if Amaurot would have been a city filled with shades but have important people be shown as their true self. It makes sense that one cant remember the faces of people living around them but friends and co-workers?

Hythlos reveal should have been a double shock by having him being the first Ancient with a real face. The same with Venats group. This could even play into Elidibus memory problem by showing only faceless Ancients instead of the others.

And at the very end, when they are both at deaths door, Emet and Elidibus should have stood before us as they once were. Instead Elidibus dies as a creepy faceless shade and we will always remember Hades in the look of his body puppet.

Just a few thoughts that were running through my mind after seeing the ancients more human.

[Vflower]

About the trailer

The voice talking about destroying the world is very likely not Emet-Selch, but in German it doesn't sound like Elidibus at all (who has a much raspier voice), so that can't be it either. It actually sounds very similar to the voice that prays to Zodiark, which is likely Fandaniel, even though it sounds so different compared to how he normally speaks.
He's clearly supposed to sound like he's in a trance-like state, super tempered basically. The French voice sounds very much like Fandaniel as well.

[JeanneOrnitier]

Something to consider about Fandaniel's voice: In the patches so far we've only heard him use Asahi's voice. When Lahabrea possessed Thancred, and when Elidibus possessed Zenos and Ardbert, they were able to switch between their host body's voice and their actual voice. The reason Fandaniel sounds so different in the trailer might be because that's his actual voice, and not Asahi's (though the same actor, which is why it's similar enough to recognize it as Fandaniel).

[Veloran]

Contextually speaking, the problem is that the crystals don't show up until after Emet-Selch has been defeated (or at least we don't find them until then), thus the argument is that he survived and put them there. That can't really happen if he's dead. How then did they get there? Well... see below.

Seems to me the answer is that he put them there beforehand.

Personally I think the most probable culprit is the Hythlodaeus shade put them out, considering it gives you the forbidden Azem soul crystal later on. Which, admittedly, acknowledges it may or may not be acting in accordance with Emet-Selch's will.

Hythlodaeus is just Emet-Selch's construct. Anything you attribute to him is in reality Emet's will by proxy.

[Wiz33]

Seems to me the answer is that he put them there beforehand.


Hythlodaeus is just Emet-Selch's construct. Anything you attribute to him is in reality Emet's will by proxy.

If emet set them up before Amaurot, that means he has found you worthy and is prepare to hand you their legacy. In that case, everything is Amaurot is stage to save your butt by joining you and Arbert's soul so you can control all that aether you have absorbed. Which also means that he would have a perfect exit strategy without getting killed. This is Emet we're talking about. He's basically a god to you by comparison.