6.0 Story Speculations

[Enkidoh]

One thing that hasn't been picked up on, is how Azem actually has/had aspects of at least two seperate members of the Twelve not one (the obvious name reference in Azeyma along with the sun symbolism, plus they also had Oschon's title of 'the Wanderer', rather than Azeyma's title of 'the Warden'), so I have a crazy headcanon now that Azem is/was The Twelve combined.

The stories about the Twelve were entirelly about Azem's crazy exploits before, during and after the Terminus and Sundering, with various aspects of their appearence, abilities, personality and political position undergoing memetic mutation throughout the millenia from the real accounts of a single powerful yet mortal individual into stories about a whole pantheon of squabbling immortal gods and goddesses (after all, Hydaelyn and Zodiark's very existence was all but forgotten until recently).

It's total darksteelfoil, and the idea is so full of holes the Beetles could have written a song about it, but it still seems odd that Azem's title didn't fit the member of the Twelve they're clearly most associated with, instead taking another member of the Twelve's title, so anything goes with this theory I guess.

[WhiteArchmage]

Honestly, I think the only way "Azem" would have been part of Hydaelin's summoning is if Her Summoners made their own version of the Convocation and took on the titles of the members of the Convocation... but I don't see any practical reason to have done that outside of mockery, and from what little we saw of them they didn't seem the type to do something like that.

As for The Twelve being Azem and Friends... I mean... maybe? Wasn't it mentioned at some point that every so often a group of Brave Warriors show up and people think they're the Twelve reincarnated? While WoL = Azem = Azim/Azeyma IS an easy one. The rest of the Scions... I wouldn't bet on it...

[MoofiaBossVal]

The rest of the Scions... I wouldn't bet on it...

Of the Scions, only Krile and Minfillia had the echo. Thancred, Y'shtola, Urianger, G'raha Tia, and the Twins have seen meteors falling from the sky at least two or three times (1.0 intro cutscene, fall of Dalamud at the end of 1.0, Elidibus' starshower in the Crystarium) but never awoke an echo, so they can't be reincarnations of Ancients.

[Rosenstrauch]

Of the Scions, only Krile and Minfillia had the echo. Thancred, Y'shtola, Urianger, G'raha Tia, and the Twins have seen meteors falling from the sky at least two or three times (1.0 intro cutscene, fall of Dalamud at the end of 1.0, Elidibus' starshower in the Crystarium) but never awoke an echo, so they can't be reincarnations of Ancients.

You can probably count both the 5.0 trip through Amaurot (the dungeon) and the 5.3 starshower as well, bringing all six of them up to four to five times. And Ryne, oddly enough, to three times.

But yeah, this is what I meant before. If the Twelve were Hydaelyn's summoners, then the number of people who could plausibly be reincarnations of them is dropped down to a handful of characters. Off the top of my head, the only Source-bound, non-Ascian characters known to have the Echo would be the WoL, Arenvald, Minfilia, Krile, Ysayle, and Mikoto. Oh, and the Sahagin priest whose soul was eaten by Leviathan. I'm sure there were a lot more back in 1.0, which was before my time, but they all seem to have either died or gone missing, I guess?

EDIT: Thinking about that, it's actually kind of sad. Minfilia founded the Path of the Twelve for the purpose of gathering people with the Echo and helping them understand and use it for Eorzea's betterment. But between the switch over to 2.0, the events of 2.0-2.55, and her death, the Path of the Twelve basically doesn't exist anymore outside of the WoL and maybe Arenvald and Krile. Everyone else is either a member of the Circle of Knowing or one of Alphinaud's hired mercenaries who stuck around after the Crystal Braves imploded.

[Kesey]

You can probably count both the 5.0 trip through Amaurot (the dungeon) and the 5.3 starshower as well, bringing all six of them up to four to five times. And Ryne, oddly enough, to three times.

But yeah, this is what I meant before. If the Twelve were Hydaelyn's summoners, then the number of people who could plausibly be reincarnations of them is dropped down to a handful of characters. Off the top of my head, the only Source-bound, non-Ascian characters known to have the Echo would be the WoL, Arenvald, Minfilia, Krile, Ysayle, and Mikoto. Oh, and the Sahagin priest whose soul was eaten by Leviathan. I'm sure there were a lot more back in 1.0, which was before my time, but they all seem to have either died or gone missing, I guess?

EDIT: Thinking about that, it's actually kind of sad. Minfilia founded the Path of the Twelve for the purpose of gathering people with the Echo and helping them understand and use it for Eorzea's betterment. But between the switch over to 2.0, the events of 2.0-2.55, and her death, the Path of the Twelve basically doesn't exist anymore outside of the WoL and maybe Arenvald and Krile. Everyone else is either a member of the Circle of Knowing or one of Alphinaud's hired mercenaries who stuck around after the Crystal Braves imploded.

I'm not sure it matters if they have the echo currently, as all life has some small part of Ancient's aether in their soul. Just some people don't awaken their echo.

Maybe they will explain better in 6.0 who does or does not awaken to the echo?

[Bhearil]

I'm not sure it matters if they have the echo currently, as all life has some small part of Ancient's aether in their soul. Just some people don't awaken their echo.

Maybe they will explain better in 6.0 who does or does not awaken to the echo?

Actually they dont, Ascians didnt had the monopoly of souls even if part of the new souls did get "recycled" from them so to speak. Even using the eastern philosophy of reincarnation Ascians were only a part of the total souls in the star's cycle and thats the main reason they were so willing to sacrifice the entire non Ascian population, because most were of non ascian souls with just a small part being Ascian shards.

If all of the new life were ascian shards they would have had a much harder time to deciding sacrificing them considering as a race they are selfless enough to willingly sacrifice so many of their kin to save the star.

[BlitzAceRush]

I don't think we know enough yet to be sure one way or the other, while Azem walked out on the Convocation and refused to partake in the summoning of Zodiark, situations and opinions change we don't know how desperate or what went on after, beyond a few parts told to us from a man who admits he's biased and some paintings with no context except from said man.
While Azem may have wanted nothing to do with summoning and saw Hydaelyn as throwing fire on more fire, it may have been their only idea at the time.

A theory I've had since we found out 6.0 might have nods to FFX is, if the sound is sentient and is our "Yu Yevon" then the Ancients might have been playing right into it's hands with their plan, perhaps Zodiark is the "Sin" in this equation and they just delivered it right to the sound. Perhaps Azem realized this, not the why but that the sounds needed/wanted/could corrupt Zodiark just like it had everything else and either through luck or foresight came to the conclusion that he had to go and quickly, Hydaelyn just happened to be a ready to go option and they were short on time.

While it's likely if it could get Zodiark it could also get Hydaelyn, she was summoned with few compared to him, they may have just seen her as a surmountable problem if it came to that verses him. Or perhaps it already got inside him, perhaps we'll learn the sound already took hold of Zodiark and by extension the Convocation, that's the secret Azem learned and why they agreed to help summon Hydaelyn, because this needed to be contained, it could no longer be destroyed, it could have even gotten into Hydaelyn, she may not have even known it, that could be the interference, why she's no longer speaking, she might have, in one last desperate attempt to contain it, sealed herself away while she still had control.

[Jandor]

I guess everyone could have a tiny slice of ancient in them given they were used as fuel for Zodiarks re-seeding of the planet.

Who else was around in ancient times? Were ancients the only sapient life? Did the supply of ancient souls outstrip demand? What was the new life that Zodiark whipped up? It's all rather vague.

[Rannie]

It could however there is one part in Ere Our Curtain Falls where it uses the wording of "Freshly minted souls" and from what Lauront said the French version says something similar....

This was soon after Zodiark became the will of the star, and our Final Days were averted. The people were divided, unable to decide what to do with the future that now stretched out before them. Many wished to trade the new life which had sprung forth to reclaim those lost in sacrifice to Zodiark. No small number, however, insisted that the fate of our world should be entrusted to those selfsame freshly minted souls. All were at our wits' end.

Though that doesn't say that they used previous souls from ancients... normally with something that is freshly minted it means everything about it is brand new

Edit: I had always doubted that Zodiark and the Amaurotines, who had summoned him, wanted to go through another evolution cycle to get the races or species back or close enough to where they were especially considering its only been 12k ish years since the sundering and from what yoshi p pretty much said for the calamity.

[Jandor]

Though that doesn't say that they used previous souls from ancients... normally with something that is freshly minted it means everything about it is brand new

I'd forgot about that bit.

Yeah, given that line, I'd assume that not everyone is a reincarnation of an ancient. Ancient souls probably just got mixed into the same pot for recycling after they went extinct as a species.