Gil stolen through market board

[TurtlesAWD]

Setting up a script to buy a house for you is the equivalent of Level 5 self-driving; you can ignore the system entirely. In the car analogy, you are not driving; with regards to the game, you are not playing. You can set up the script and wander off to a restaurant for dinner. Go see a movie. Visit a friend. Go to bed. Sleep. Wake up the next moring, grab breakfast, then go check on your script.

That's not playing the game. That is a bot.

They are not the same thing, and shouldn't be conflated as though they were.

I don't think the use of scripts was what the topic of conversation was, it's hard for me to imagine that would be anything like non-invasive. I assumed we were discussing just autoclickers and if not nobody has clarified that at least up til now. Mypoint is more that there are third party applications that can provide some kind of valid or necessary input utility, and I have yet to see a persuasive case that should be considered, in general, a cheat.

For example, I play older games occasionally, created before dual monitors were anything like normal, and these games sometimes require turning the camera by hovering the mouse cursor at the edge of the screen. They also don't lock the mouse cursor to the screen, because two screens weren't in the conversation as a possible user setup when the game was made, so it's very easy to scroll off. So, I use a third party application that locks my mouse cursor to the screen the game client is on - it doesn't interact with the game, it just interacts with my PC and my screens. But it has the impact of keeping my mouse cursor on the game screen. There could otherwise be physical solutions to this - I could unplug my other monitor or use a physical object to limit my mouse's movement space, but the software based solution is not changing anything about the game's executable or files itself.

Similarly, autoclickers aren't going to move your mouse or tell it what not to click on. They just, well... click. If it has any kind of capability of doing more than that, you're probably looking at something that is more than an auto clicker. A couple minutes on google even indicates some mice have this kind of function built in - they can be set to click rapidly when the mouse button is held down, at which point you can just... tape the button down. This doesn't interact with the game's executable, or even with necessarily any further application than a user and their mouse at all. If the in-game prompts line up in such a way for a house to be bought with this method, then I guess I would make them not do that as probably the easiest solution. If they can't, then this is probably a moot point, but it seems to have been what OP did, or what everyone believes OP did, and incidentally they still have an active account, so...

I'm still quite entertained by your very deliberate choice of words. I interpret this as you being very experienced with breaking rules but wording it in such a way that it becomes too vague. But hey, that's just my interpretation of it. What I've learned here is that words mean whatever you think they mean.

Actually it's impossible for two people to mean the same thing with the same word. For example, imagine a cat. I will also imagine a cat. Do you think the cat we envision is the same? There will be similarities in all likelihood, but anything specific - color, size, behavior, hair texture, number of whiskers, and so on can all be wildly different, and similarities will be broadly coincidental.

Kind of along similar lines, while I know you believe you don't like me, what you actually don't like is your image of me. An object of thought (your image of me) and the object itself (me) are not the same thing. So that pretty much has nothing to do with me. Your image and your feelings, I'm staying out of it.

Anyway the buddha said hatred is like drinking poison and expecting somebody else to die, so have fun with that!

[Doozer]

Actually it's impossible for two people to mean the same thing with the same word.

Oh stuff it. I'm not buying that you're some kind of linguist. Words mean things. It's time for you to grow up and accept that.

[MrMagic]

Similarly, autoclickers aren't going to move your mouse or tell it what not to click on. They just, well... click. If it has any kind of capability of doing more than that, you're probably looking at something that is more than an auto clicker. A couple minutes on google even indicates some mice have this kind of function built in - they can be set to click rapidly when the mouse button is held down, at which point you can just... tape the button down. This doesn't interact with the game's executable, or even with necessarily any further application than a user and their mouse at all. If the in-game prompts line up in such a way for a house to be bought with this method, then I guess I would make them not do that as probably the easiest solution. If they can't, then this is probably a moot point, but it seems to have been what OP did, or what everyone believes OP did, and incidentally they still have an active account, so...

Ok maybe we need to take a moment and sit you down to explain what we mean by auto clicker and what you mean by auto clicker. You can't buy a house with a turbo button, there's no tape involved here. you need a little more than a tipping bird hovering over your keyboard to pull off a house purchase.

Seeming as you like to bring up using google:

"A full-fledged autoclicker with two modes of autoclicking, at your dynamic cursor location or at a prespecified location. The maximum amounts of clicked can also be set"

"Auto clickers can be as simple as a program that simulates mouse clicking. This type of auto-clicker is fairly generic and will often work alongside any other computer program running at the time and acting as though a physical mouse button is pressed.

More complex auto clickers can similarly be as general, but often are custom-made for use with one particular program and involve memory reading. Such auto clickers may allow the user to automate most or all mouse functions, as well as simulate a full set of keyboard inputs. Custom-made auto clickers may have a narrower scope than a generic auto clicker.

Auto clickers also called automation software programs, may also have features enabling response conditional reactions, as well as a keyboard."

"You can use Auto Clicker to Auto Click at pre-defined fixed screen location or you can auto click at current Mouse Cursor Location."

"Auto Clicker helps you do repeated taps at any location with any interval you specify."

"Mouse clickers are incredibly useful in scenarios that require you to repeat mouse movements and clicks."

I could go on.

So again, this type of software also can move the mouse pointer for you. I bet your favourite bit of tape can't do that. Do a bit of research next time before you embarrass yourself.

[Lanadra]

Once again, difference of opinion. I don’t consider it self-entitlement, I consider it playing the system.

Which is against the rules, against the TOS. Which is why OP is likely to get banned.

And hearkening back to your previous post:

If you wanna ban players for using a script to get around a badly designed aspect of the game, ban the players who are also standing in the same spot 14 hours clicking manually. No difference to me.

It is also why someone 'standing in the same spot 14 hours clicking manually' won't get banned. Because there actually is a difference. One party, the one using a script/autoclicker, is explicitly breaking the rules. The other party, the person standing next to the cheater, using no scripts or 3rd party software of any kind, manually clicking.. is not breaking any rules. The system sucks.. but that's no excuse for breaking the rules and making a bad system even worse for those who don't cheat.

Just like Missbone, you are defending cheaters, it's as simple as that.

[Barwara]

Just like Missbone, you are defending cheaters, it's as simple as that.

I think you should go back and read all my other posts instead of nitpicking on the ones where I did, indeed, badly word my thoughts. So this is the last time I’m adding to this conversation because by now it’s being ridiculous, and I don’t tolerate being called a cheater because I don’t feel as strongly about an issue as you or everyone else who hates bots with a passion.

I agree with everyone else that using autoclickers is against the rules so yes, you should be banned and punished if you use them. That doesn’t mean I will judge people as harshly as you because they did use one. Given the situation it’s to be expected, and I understand how someone can be desperate enough to use an autoclicker or spend hours clicking manually. I think you shouldn’t be doing any of those things, but if you do consequences are yours to deal with.

From the beginning I’ve been saying that if you respect the game and you respect your sanity, you should avoid trying to get a house with the current system. But I guess no one read that part of my posts.

Bye!

[TurtlesAWD]

Oh stuff it. I'm not buying that you're some kind of linguist. Words mean things. It's time for you to grow up and accept that.

It's clear there's many things your grudge will make you not accept even if they're staring you in the face. But out of curiosity is it me you want to grow up, or Saussure?

Ok maybe we need to take a moment and sit you down to explain what we mean by auto clicker and what you mean by auto clicker. You can't buy a house with a turbo button, there's no tape involved here. you need a little more than a tipping bird hovering over your keyboard to pull off a house purchase.

Seeming as you like to bring up using google:

"A full-fledged autoclicker with two modes of autoclicking, at your dynamic cursor location or at a prespecified location. The maximum amounts of clicked can also be set"

"Auto clickers can be as simple as a program that simulates mouse clicking. This type of auto-clicker is fairly generic and will often work alongside any other computer program running at the time and acting as though a physical mouse button is pressed.

More complex auto clickers can similarly be as general, but often are custom-made for use with one particular program and involve memory reading. Such auto clickers may allow the user to automate most or all mouse functions, as well as simulate a full set of keyboard inputs. Custom-made auto clickers may have a narrower scope than a generic auto clicker.

Auto clickers also called automation software programs, may also have features enabling response conditional reactions, as well as a keyboard."

"You can use Auto Clicker to Auto Click at pre-defined fixed screen location or you can auto click at current Mouse Cursor Location."

"Auto Clicker helps you do repeated taps at any location with any interval you specify."

"Mouse clickers are incredibly useful in scenarios that require you to repeat mouse movements and clicks."

I could go on.

So again, this type of software also can move the mouse pointer for you. I bet your favourite bit of tape can't do that. Do a bit of research next time before you embarrass yourself.

Once again you've missed the point while doubling down on something tangential.

Fine, let's just assume all autoclickers move the mouse. Do they require interacting with the game executable to do so? Do they modify any game files? Do they look at the game in any capacity? Doesn't seem so. After all, if they did, OP wouldn't have bought those retainer's items. So this doesn't actually matter. It doesn't change anything. I hope that post didn't take you long to write.

[Kaurhz]

It's maybe impossible to know what my exact response would be but I think I would mostly just more keenly feel the need for a better system. I'm not dead-set on the side of the topic creator in this case - they took their gil into their own hands with the method they tried to use to get it, and that clearly has a risk associated - but I see that as well as a bad outcome of the system since it kind of encourages housing pvp, which is a strange place to be in. Like, the owner of the retainer that sold them the overpriced items - they weren't doing this to mete out a sentence for a crime, it was to make like 6 million gil selling common fish, or whatever it was.

I feel like probably a lot of people try clicking manually until they can't stomach it anymore, then turn to automated methods when it seems like the only option. Personally, I didn't feel the need so bad as to hunt one down at all costs, figured I'd take my shot when they made a change like adding more, but... there's a lot of items and game systems that it's hard to make use of without one. Free Companies and Apartments can help with that but, well... they only go so far.

And it probably didn't help that house cleanup for inactivity had been disabled for months.

I completely forgot to respond here.. Hmm

Well, as far as the system itself is concerned there's absolutely no merit involved for the current implementation and is in fact far exceedingly worse than the prior system, especially when their goal was to reduce people selling houses, effectively. In this case, all they did was alleviated that and went with the implementation that pretty much encourages some people to break the Terms of Service. I do actually find it comical that they have thus far remained on this implementation. If they don't fix it in 6.0, then honestly there's very little hope for housing itself. In this effect, the costs far, far, far outweigh the gains of this system.

I really don't know what they were thinking about having a randomized timer for housing purchasing, especially when the primary goal is to prevent buying/selling. Which setting it to a fixed, and visible timer for the player would achieve the same, and with much less of.. This.

That being said though, whether people can or cannot stomach it and resort to third-party tools to aid is still, and always will be against the Terms of Service, so yeah... Granted, this problem is equally on the shoulders of SE for designing such an apparently poor system, with pretty much all foresight gone out the window.

[Jijifli]

Fine, let's just assume all autoclickers move the mouse. Do they require interacting with the game executable to do so? Do they modify any game files? Do they look at the game in any capacity?

It modifies to gameplay, by allowing the game to play itself for extended periods of time with no user input.

With how hard you're actively trying to avoid the literal rule posted to you twice now, with a source by me on one of them, you'd think you're someone who's actively another user of those programs.

[Saefinn]

this usually happens to people using bots. someone will notice you using an auto clicker, transfer their plot to the one you're trying to buy and set a retainer stocked with over priced but easily obtainable items so that your auto clicker will buy it all up.

so pretty much just stop using auto clickers or at least pay more attention to what it's doing.

RIP your gil tho, lol.

I did not realise people did this and that makes me so happy. I applaud these people, they're doing God's work. The housing system is bad enough without people cheating to gain an unfair advantage.

[TurtlesAWD]

It modifies to gameplay, by allowing the game to play itself for extended periods of time with no user input.

With how hard you're actively trying to avoid the literal rule posted to you twice now, with a source by me on one of them, you'd think you're someone who's actively another user of those programs.

There's been a recurring tactic of insinuating I'm somehow also breaking the rules the last few pages and I'm not sure what the goal of that is necessarily. Scare me into not posting because the mob will somehow ban me? Not on your life, not to mention not how account moderation even works. The only thing that'll stop me from posting is boredom with the subject, or the post limit timer. Maybe your inability to stop me frustrates you but like... I don't really care, that doesn't have anything to do with me. You gotta learn to let go.

I think that it's both indicative of a failure to read the thread, as well as a failure to make a persuasive or consistent case that autoclickers are meaningfully different as a method of systemic circumvention compared to any others, including non-software based solutions. There's been essentially no effort to grapple with this except one accidental post agreeing with me but angrily as though the poster was still trying to argue. It's probably also a failure to consider cause and effect in terms of real world outcomes when you consider OP's account state (again, active, every post that insinuates they're going to ban me as though users can even do that fails to recall this at a bare minimum).