Gil stolen through market board

[Doozer]

As a separate consideration from housing, if the ToS disallows the use of software which can provide disability accessibility, I am inclined to think that yes, the ToS should in that case be ignored - and the type of software that allows a player to click automatically may be the kind of tool that allows some players, or potential players, the capability to click at all.

Again, stop using people with disabilities as a crutch for your defence of breaking the ToS. It's not what's being discussed, we're referring specifically to people who use third-party tools in order to acquire things in-game without actually playing. Acting like the two are equal is honestly disgusting. Get a different argument.

[Themarvin]

Do you believe the intent of the housing system is to require players to click for upwards of 12 hours in a row in order to be able to buy a house?

Read the ToS, it is very clear about that it is prohibited to do botting in this game, as you are getting an advantage when not there.

[TurtlesAWD]

Super convenient how none of your examples allow you to just straight up leave the house or go to sleep. Also there are not just the 2 ways to get a house, bot or click for 12 hours. I mean, this keeps being said and you keep glossing over it so I think I’ll leave you to your “difference of opinion”.

I could tape a button down and leave the house or go to sleep, and with a wireless mouse I imagine I could leave the house to at least some limited range, which seems pretty obvious with the examples given. And I'm not sure whether I'm inside or outside my house matters for the discussion anyway. How far away from my computer am I allowed to be before a method of automation becomes a cheat?

I'm guessing if I was at my computer staring at my monitor but running an auto clicker for some reason you'd still have a problem with it, so it honestly just kind of seems like you have an attachment to this specific method for some reason that doesn't seem based on any kind of difference or consequence compared to other methods.

[TurtlesAWD]

Again, stop using people with disabilities as a crutch for your defence of breaking the ToS. It's not what's being discussed, we're referring specifically to people who use third-party tools in order to acquire things in-game without actually playing. Acting like the two are equal is honestly disgusting. Get a different argument.

If I tape a button down am I actually playing? If I'm clicking a wireless mouse from my living room am I actually playing? What is it about software that removes "play" from the equation in a way that hardware or physical solutions don't?

And no, I won't stop advocating for people with disabilities to be able to play a game even if the ToS excludes it. Such a ruling is probably not even a valid legal defense, many terms of service aren't. This is separate from using it for housing, which I said, but you're consistently bringing it up anyway. People with bodies different than yours and mine should be able to play too. This may require a different, more specialized set of equipment.

That said, it seems like the issue would be using some method to circumvent the system to to have an advantage over other players would be against the spirit of the game, but this can be done with software or hardware. Yet you focus on the software for reasons that are honestly entirely arbitrarily, and rather than elaborate you just point to a set of rules you're already okay with seeing broken as long as the victim is someone else who broke the rules in the first place.

[SturmChurro]

Are you guys seriously still arguing this? I thought autoclicker or whatever, was just plain old against the ToS, and I don't think any long winded argument is ever gonna change that.

I had to sit at placards for probably around 12 hours almost straight, very few breaks. At anytime I could have lost my plot to someone if I decided to go to the bathroom at the wrong moment - actually one time I did! People with disabilities have had to sit just like me and click, just for the chance at a house on a populated world, but they did it anyway. A bad housing system doesn't justify breaking the ToS to obtain a house. For that matter, many of these people trying to take these plots are alts, FCs and people will buy up entire wards using this method.

[TurtlesAWD]

Are you guys seriously still arguing this? I thought autoclicker or whatever, was just plain old against the ToS, and I don't think any long winded argument is ever gonna change that.

I had to sit at placards for probably around 12 hours almost straight, very few breaks. At anytime I could have lost my plot to someone if I decided to go to the bathroom at the wrong moment - actually one time I did! People with disabilities have had to sit just like me and click, just for the chance at a house on a populated world, but they did it anyway. A bad housing system doesn't justify breaking the ToS to obtain a house. For that matter, many of these people trying to take these plots are alts, FCs and people will buy up entire wards using this method.

I'm not sure you're following the conversation very well.

A ToS that excludes people from participation based on physical capability would be a bad ToS. This is pretty obvious for reasons I hope I don't have to explain.

Separately, as a different thing, clicking a plaque repeatedly for hours on end - via any method - is a circumvention of the housing system because it is not an intent of the system for players to sit in one place and click for 12 hours straight, whether software, hardware, or physical input is the method used.

[Doozer]

And no, I won't stop advocating for people with disabilities to be able to play a game even if the ToS excludes it.

Oh that's a clever way to try to turn it around. Claim you're advocating for people instead of using them as a shield or a pawn in your argument. You never advocated for them, you said if someone with disabilities uses a third-party tool to play, then botting or using auto-clickers to buy houses should be allowed.

Again, we are talking about people using software to gain advantaged in-game without playing. A person who has a disability using software or hardware to be able to play at all is not the same thing. Give it up.

People with bodies different than yours and mine should be able to play too.

And you know literally nothing about my body. I'd love to know what system of logic you use to assume I'm able-bodied. Is it because I post on the forums? Because I don't condone cheating? What is it? Don't assume you know what someone's experiences are.

Stop trying to force a narrative where you're some knight in shining armour for the disablied and downtrodden, literally everyone can see what you're actually doing.

[MrMagic]

I'm guessing if I was at my computer staring at my monitor but running an auto clicker for some reason you'd still have a problem with it, so it honestly just kind of seems like you have an attachment to this specific method for some reason that doesn't seem based on any kind of difference or consequence compared to other methods.

Oh yes, because THAT'S how people use these bots including the OP.

I could tape a button down and leave the house or go to sleep, and with a wireless mouse I imagine I could leave the house to at least some limited range, which seems pretty obvious with the examples given. And I'm not sure whether I'm inside or outside my house matters for the discussion anyway. How far away from my computer am I allowed to be before a method of automation becomes a cheat?

You forgot to mention sleep clicking. It's a serious medical problem. I was clearly talking about heading to work etc. but if you want to do gardening with a wireless mouse in one hand, kudos.

[SturmChurro]

I'm not sure you're following the conversation very well.

A ToS that excludes people from participation based on physical capability would be a bad ToS. This is pretty obvious for reasons I hope I don't have to explain.

Separately, as a different thing, clicking a plaque repeatedly for hours on end - via any method - is a circumvention of the housing system because it is not an intent of the system for players to sit in one place and click for 12 hours straight, whether software, hardware, or physical input is the method used.

I have not been following the "conversation" ("justification?"). I have been skimming it, and rolling my eyes. I am quite concerned that there have been people trying to justify this behavior. I would have thought using an autoclicker, botting, or whatever, would have been universally disliked, but not only that - quite simply against the ToS, no matter how much someone may wish it not to be.

[Raim]

Report anyone condoning or defending the use of third party software. This is botting. Don't try to negotiate with posters trying to 'rationalize' cheating just because the current housing situation isn't good. You not being able to get a plot doesn't mean you can just break the rules to acquire one.