Thread: Warrior 6.0 Wishlist

Originally Posted by FallenWings

No tank has any more right to personal DPS based on theme.

The only reason WAR was ever perceived as such because it was blatantly overpowered in a time where people thought tanks only fitted into one role each(WAR was better in both Offense AND Defense to add insult to injury).

Angry man does not = more damage than holy man or darkness man or explosion man.

Burst damage should always be less DPS to perfected constant DPS. The former is more flexible and a much better prog tank with even more prowess in certain small DPS checks. The damage difference between them is no more than 5% TANK dps. We are talking ~600 dps difference in a total RDPS of ~120,000. It literally does not matter other than to I guess pointlessly e-peen over your co-tank on a parse.

I will respectfully disagree there.
The theme should dictate what a tank excels at (damage included) and where it falters compared to rest.
Too much "equal" equals "the same" And if all four are the same, why have four of them instead of just one?

Greataxe wielding berserker with bare minimum in terms of team utility is to have lower damage then 1h sword + shield wielding paldin with potent team saving skills?
I say that's just wrong. If warrior's defenses were op compared to rest, then that's where he needs trimming, true to his fantasy - more damage, but more selfish and a greater risk of dying compared to a "safe" paladin.

Burst damage should always be less than continual damage IF we're talking about two classes/jobs that are meant to be equals. A healer's steady damage should not surprass a burst dps'ers.
Similarly a defensive continual damage tank should not easily outdamage a burst offensive one. I say they should have equal damage if continual damage was done right.
But in a burst favouring fight, the offensive one should be clearly ahead, with defensive one never clearly outpacing the offensive counterpart unless the latter botched his job.

Also i say make the e-peen great again for tanks! Tanks are a very necessary role and chasing the damage bunny makes it exciting and brings more tank players to the fray.
Make it too balanced and you'll see a loss in tank numbers if there is very little room for bragging rights and skill expression.

Originally Posted by Zefirez

Differences in damage aren't just a role thing, it applies to individual jobs as well. No one should complain about samurai having higher damage than a Dancer because Dancer has major party utility, while samurai is a selfish class focused on nothing but his own damage.

Similar story for tanks. PLD has way more party saving skills than a warrior, who in terms of being a teamplayer is pretty much bare bones among tanks. Warrior's "teamplay" is about killing the enemy faster, simple as that. Less safety, more damage - risk vs reward.

The way i see it (as far as i know), it should go like this:

1. Warrior - highest damage potential (ex-equo with gunbreaker), ease of use, good but not best defense, lowest party utility
2. Gunbreaker - lowest defense, hard to master, highest damage potential (equal to warrior), and solid party utility when played right
3. Dark Knight - middle ground, better than others vs mobs, should have some high risk/high reward defensive manouvers
4 PLD - lowest damage (not terribly lower than rest but noticably so), medium difficulty, great defense and party utility.

Legitimately cannot take anything this guy says seriously as soon as he puts Warrior at the top of this list.

Firstly, on utility versus damage argument. Warrior is the biggest walking contradictions to this back in HW. Storm's Path was absurd utility that applied a 10% dmg down on the enemy, which did more to mitigate incoming damage than any other tank. Warrior also applied Slashing debuff, allowing Ninja to ignore using Dancing Edge outright. This does not even include it's self healing capabilities and strong defensive suite.
While Paladin had Cover, which only applied to physical damage in a magical heavy raid tier, Divine Veil on a 2 minute cooldown, and doesn't get proc'd without a GCD heal, and a STR down debuff attached to an aggro combo that was it's lowest potency combo.
DRK had Reprisal on a Proc system that required it to be MT, and Delirium which applied an INT down debuff. All of that better than Paladin and Dark Knight and still doing the most damage out of all the three tanks, Warrior should have been nerfed 10 times over but it wasn't.

Fast-forward to present day, Warrior is where it belongs, it cannot have it's cake and eat it, it needed nerfing in some way, and this is the fairest way about it, a difference of roughly 5%, but have outside of TBN on Dark Knight, Warrior has the strongest personal mitigation, and strongest self sustain, while still pumping out good damage and still have access to Shake It Off for party support. It has a Strong Burst but drops off which is actually thematic and reminiscent of old Berserk.

Paladin is the least sustainable tank passively, and is lacking one personal cooldown in exchange for Passage Of Arms (which is optional usage in most content as any tank comp can clear content, but it's nice to have to ease the burden on healers). Cover was effectively nerfed from Stormblood, making it's utility somewhat weaker (at most delays a tank swap) and Veil on the same cooldown as Shake It Off, but still requires a GCD heal and STILL does not benefit from it's own ability. While it's burst is the lowest of the tanks it was one of the best sustains out of the four tanks when executed well. Clemency I do not consider utility, and even if for argument sake you factor it in, requires sacrificing damage and mp to use in the first place which is it's trade off, much like Red Mage tanks it's damage as soon as it needs to raise people.

Dark Knight, is super strong defensively mostly due to TBN, but can burst higher openers than WAR, and capable of sustaining damage better than Warrior, but has two windows to manage versus Warriors one. Dark Knight typically has decent self sustain compared to Warrior, and utility is on par with the other tanks through Dark Missionary.

Gunbreaker has pretty good burst in it's opener, and solid damage sustain. It's self sustain is better than Paladin, and about the same utility as Dark Knight.

Rightfully, the two tanks with great sustain damage but okay personal defensives and self sustain are at the top, while the two tanks that have strong burst, defensives and sustain are bottom in the 5% marginal difference.

If you want to argue from another perspective, the easiest tank to play in the game should not be top of the damage charts out of the four tanks, otherwise whats the point of putting any effort in.

End of the day, a 100m sprinter is not gonna beat out a marathon runner in a 10-12 minute race.