Thread: A request for your constructive suggestions on Bozja 5.45

Originally Posted by EtherRose

The main reason why there is negativity regarding it is because most people expect it to be a walk in the park. They want everything handed to them on a silver platter and a trophy for not doing much. I do agree the rewards need a little touch up but people need to understand that this is endgame content and not a walk in the park. They will ease it up patch by patch like they did eureka as it becomes more obsolete.

Wow, people still use this lame@ss excuse of a reason in 2021 to make them feel good/belittle others? "They" want everything handed to them just as much as raider playing exclusively for the challenge, right *winkwink*. Stop living in the past with outdated casual vs non-casual tainted glasses and midset.

Originally Posted by Mahoukenshi

Wow, people still use this excuse of a reason in 2021 to make them feel good/belittle others? "They" want everything handed to them just as much as raider playing exclusively for the challenge, right *winkwink*. Stop living in the past with outdated casual vs non-casual tainted glasses and midset.

I also, as I've less time, "adulting" or whatever you want to call it, legitimately see myself enjoying easier content more and more. Get to do a lot of stuff, big progress, big damage, low stress and don't need to memorize a bunch of stuff to get in and enjoy it (not that I think I'm bad, I use all my spells and follow the markers lol, in this way it often lets me carry DF groups since most DF content is designed to be basically easy enough you only need 1/2 to 1/4 of your group doing 'okay' to actually win- which feels fun too).

"So U WaN It JuSt HaNdEd to YoU?!?! YoU DoN'T WaNT To FoRm A STaTiC aNd FaRm FoR 2 HoURS or MorE A DaY? LAAAZzzZY"


"..pretty much, I don't have the time NOR the DESIRE to do that". Give it to me over easy, thanks. This coming from someone who used to do that harder content (more so in old WoW tbh). I just don't have the time nor the desire to 'waste' what time I have on attempts that net no gains (for example trying to do savage content in DF is like trying to pull out teeth from an awake blood frenzy shark, it's usually going to go horribly and take a long time). Naturally people who have time to wait in PF and start groups and kick out those who didn't learn the routine will do it easily (it's not that hard if you follow instructions), but for those who are more in a time restricted "I just want to de-stress" . . a chance (likely a small chance) at progress seems like a good waste of time. So naturally this is where the multiple (two or more) different types of players will start to impact each other's content types.


It's why when I thought they were making a solo job (designed to solo content your main jobs couldn't even) I was actually excited (it's not that, but I still hope they might think about that).


So of course different players play this game, you'd make a mistake if you made the game too hardcore or too casual such that either audience is like "this game is awful". I do think they messed up, just a little, by binding relic into this "hardcore-lite" content concept (lite, it's not that hardcore but it has lite concepts, like consumable spells that can't be learned, like the group system not actually producing groups that can clear CLL consistently, etc). Nothing wrong with a hardcore Eureka concept, but I think you bound relic into it inappropriately then (at least to me relic was originally meant to be that casual 'end game', so everything to do with relic should be casual oriented). Nothing wrong with making it lighter core, than it already is (remove mettle loss, make spells learnable or whatever, make content consistently clear-able, etc), but then you want to make sure those mid-core/hard-core players are enjoying 'something' at least.


I still think simply making the stuff relic needs scale-able (and more rewarding at the same time), while also making spells less annoying to use would do great benefits (with like either no mettle loss for those instances or a maximum that isn't "the entire level's worth of buffer you earned" lol). Since using spells makes things easier and is part of the excitement of the whole system, just by getting people to use them more frivolously while ensuring relic related content consistently clears with almost nearly 'whatever group is formed' would do well in general (more spells being used would already help, adding light scaling on top of that and I think everything "should" be fine for a while- with those tweaks (scaling, spell use concept adjustments, mettle loss review)).

Originally Posted by Shougun

I also, as I've less time, "adulting" or whatever you want to call it, legitimately see myself enjoying easier content more and more. Get to do a lot of stuff, big progress, big damage, low stress and don't need to memorize a bunch of stuff to get in and enjoy it (not that I think I'm bad, I use all my spells and follow the markers lol, in this way it often lets me carry DF groups since most DF content is designed to be basically easy enough you only need 1/2 to 1/4 of your group doing 'okay' to actually win- which feels fun too).

I think the problem is there's two mindsets at war. One is "I'm older now, I have kids/a job/a mortgage/whatever, I don't have the time to put in a 200-hour grind to get a thing, but I still want to play the game", and then the other is "I want there to be aspirational content, stuff you have to really strive for to get, things that you need to challenge yourself with". And the first group may even agree with the second... but I don't think right now everyone agrees on what that aspirational content is.

Some folks feel the relic is aspirational content that should require some work and effort to get (albeit, one hopes, not so much as savage content necessarily does), and that there needs to be challenge to it. Others feel the relic is for casual folks, and that the obstacle to obtaining it should be time rather than difficulty.

And Square-Enix is proving really, really bad at clearly communicating which of those things is their intention—or if they mean something else with it, like some middle ground—so each side (understandably) thinks their interpretation of it is the correct one and approaches the discussion/debate that way. Hence, folks who view it as aspirational content are probably feeling "You just want the challenging stuff to be dumbed down and the rewards handed to you; the game needs to have some stuff that isn't a cakewalk!" while the folks who view it as casual content are probably feeling like "You just want to make everything inaccessible to the average player so that it can be a status symbol for you, and no one else gets anything shiny or neat!"

When that's probably not actually the intention of either side of the discussion.