Zenos: The Big Bad (The Feedback Thread, Part 1)

[MrThinker]

I think the entire FFXIV staff is chock full of suckers for redemption arcs. Not redemption of morality, but of the quality of their product. If they succeed it will spark up every past scene as delayed brilliance. It's a tall order, I know, but I think that's what they're trying to do.

Looks back at the 1.0 -2.0 transition

Yeah, this seems about right.

[Mahoukenshi]

I have a double-standardish opinion, in that I hate traits about Zenos, which I however won't mind with the WoL.
Zenos reminds me power-level-wise of Sasuke post-timeskip, who got every power-up shoved in his rektum with litte or no effort. Zenos is similar in the super-talented genius who needs to put no effort into anything and got Ascian power shoved behind his lazy rektum. Again, you don't need to remind me that the WoL has also many Gender-Stue characteristics (and plot armor). His whole antagonis role consists of being bored and doing nothing or being a creep with a WoL fetish (muh friend). The whole power level differennce between non-WoL and WoL to garner his "interest" was a whole eyerolling cliché. He doesn't need to be like Emet with the "feels bad" vibe afterwards or a deep background, but more reactions than a neandertaler.

[EaraGrace]

I think it’s no coincidence that we’re going to Garlemald precisely when the origin, backstory, creation, etc. of Zenos is suddenly important to the MSQ. While Garlemald was always gonna be important, the fact we’ll have seemingly easy access to whatever skeletons are in the Garleans closets (seeing as how the whole place is a ruin) makes me think we’re in for a nice, plot-twisting reveal. I don’t think whatever they’re revealing will “redeem” Zenos in any form, but it will definitely give us more context on who he is and why he’s doing the things he’s doing. Both of which have been simplistic so far.

[Corsinus]

I think it’s no coincidence that we’re going to Garlemald precisely when the origin, backstory, creation, etc. of Zenos is suddenly important to the MSQ. While Garlemald was always gonna be important, the fact we’ll have seemingly easy access to whatever skeletons are in the Garleans closets (seeing as how the whole place is a ruin) makes me think we’re in for a nice, plot-twisting reveal. I don’t think whatever they’re revealing will “redeem” Zenos in any form, but it will definitely give us more context on who he is and why he’s doing the things he’s doing. Both of which have been simplistic so far.

I think there's a few passive hints going toward that idea.
Heavensward and Stormblood's trailer had no voice narration, so we can't really use them as an exemple.

Shadowbringer's trailer was narrated by Best Boy and we know the impact he had on the story.
Endwalker teaser trailer is firstly narrated by Emet-Selch talking about the past, then followed by a silent tower, then by Zenos when we look at Garlemald and he himself is looking toward the moon.
We knows the trailers are more symbolics than factual, so I feel like who's talking an in what order is more important that it might appear.

I therefore strongly agree with the Anima's theory being the missing link between Emet-Selch and Zenos, so either Zenos' mother or grandmother and it'll be one of the focus of our trip to Garlemald.
Plus, the elevator in the creepy tower kinda look like a weird umbillical cord and it lead directly to a room housing Zenos and only Zenos.
Given the general elevated form of Anima and the organic nature of the tower, I wouldn't be surprise if the tower we see in the trailer " is " actually anima, ready to birth a transformed Zenos into the moon.

I strongly feel like there's more to that tower than it's architecture.

[Veloran]

I think there's a few passive hints going toward that idea.
Heavensward and Stormblood's trailer had no voice narration, so we can't really use them as an exemple.

Shadowbringer's trailer was narrated by Best Boy and we know the impact he had on the story.
Endwalker teaser trailer is firstly narrated by Emet-Selch talking about the past, then followed by a silent tower, then by Zenos when we look at Garlemald and he himself is looking toward the moon.
We knows the trailers are more symbolics than factual, so I feel like who's talking an in what order is more important that it might appear.

I therefore strongly agree with the Anima's theory being the missing link between Emet-Selch and Zenos, so either Zenos' mother or grandmother and it'll be one of the focus of our trip to Garlemald.
Plus, the elevator in the creepy tower kinda look like a weird umbillical cord and it lead directly to a room housing Zenos and only Zenos.
Given the general elevated form of Anima and the organic nature of the tower, I wouldn't be surprise if the tower we see in the trailer " is " actually anima, ready to birth a transformed Zenos into the moon.

I strongly feel like there's more to that tower than it's architecture.

I'm pretty sure it's only Emet's voice doing the narration at both the beginning and the end. If I had to guess, he'll be delivering commentary throughout Endwalker via the Azem stone.

Also the elevator has multiple branching offshoots that, given it appears to be aetherial movement, someone could probably travel down.

[Vyrerus]

I think there's a few passive hints going toward that idea.
Heavensward and Stormblood's trailer had no voice narration, so we can't really use them as an exemple.

Shadowbringer's trailer was narrated by Best Boy and we know the impact he had on the story.
Endwalker teaser trailer is firstly narrated by Emet-Selch talking about the past, then followed by a silent tower, then by Zenos when we look at Garlemald and he himself is looking toward the moon.
We knows the trailers are more symbolics than factual, so I feel like who's talking an in what order is more important that it might appear.

I therefore strongly agree with the Anima's theory being the missing link between Emet-Selch and Zenos, so either Zenos' mother or grandmother and it'll be one of the focus of our trip to Garlemald.
Plus, the elevator in the creepy tower kinda look like a weird umbillical cord and it lead directly to a room housing Zenos and only Zenos.
Given the general elevated form of Anima and the organic nature of the tower, I wouldn't be surprise if the tower we see in the trailer " is " actually anima, ready to birth a transformed Zenos into the moon.

I strongly feel like there's more to that tower than it's architecture.

I'm gonna hafta rewatch and listen to the trailer again I guess. I heard Urianger for the opening narration and Asahi/Fandango for the tower elevator segment. Huh.

[Kesey]

I'm gonna hafta rewatch and listen to the trailer again I guess. I heard Urianger for the opening narration and Asahi/Fandango for the tower elevator segment. Huh.

I heard Fandaniel talking during the trailer.

[Mieck]

For a long time, I was thinking along the lines of "Zenos is Fandaniel's useful idiot". If Fandaniel plays to Zenos's one obsession and proclaims he will grant Zenos the chance of that longed-for rematch, then Zenos gives Fandaniel the cover to get on with his actual plan.
And there could still be a bit of that, but I think an event has turned Fandaniel's mission somewhat. I also think that this whole thing fundamentally rests on another Ascian plot, set in motion a long time ago. As Emet says, they scheme every hour of every day, so it would make sense for them to set up lots of plans, most of which probably never come to fruition.

I had a chat with an FC friend about this, and the whole thing started with a few facts.

- Emet-Selch (as Solus) carefully orchestrated his "death", which ensured the Garlean Empire fell into civil war.
- He deliberately did not name a successor, which led to the battle over the throne - a battle which Varis eventually won.
- Varis's very first act as emperor was to name his son - Zenos - as crown prince. He was not prepared to let the Empire fall to the same chaos once again.
- Emet-Selch (as an ascian, operating on the First some years after the Flood of Light had been halted, but before Eulmore had given up the fight against the Sin Eaters, approached the then leader of Eulmore and proposed to fuse Sin Eater with his wife's as yet unborn son, thus creating the hybrid Vauthry.

So, those are established facts, and my speculation follows;

Emet / Solus ensured the chaos after his death was so bad that it would lead to Varis wanting to shore up the line of succession. Using techniques he had already employed on the First to create Vauthry, he did (or had already done) something similar (?) to an unborn Zenos. The chaos of Solus's death was designed to lead eventually to Zenos becoming emperor. Varis was only ever intended to be a stop-gap, if he even took the throne at all.

Supporting this line of speculation is Fandaniel's pondering, uttered immediately after finding out that Zenos dreams of the Final Days.

Indeed... Could Emet-Selch have found a way...? Precious few possess memories of the Final Days.

This revelation has maybe shifted Fandaniel’s plan?


Associated fragments of speculation: whatever it was that Emet did to Zenos was also a factor in Elidibus deciding to use his corpse following the Battle of Ala Mhigo. Upon Zenos’s death, the Ascians could have viewed this as a scheme thwarted, and therefore try and make some additonal use from a failed asset, but they don’t much care because they have plenty of them in play. Elidibus, at the very least, had no knowledge of the Resonant project – or not enough – and did not expect the corpse’s previous owner coming back for it.

[SpiralMask]

my personal thoughts on zenos are that he's too Flat (as in Flat Arc the storytelling mechanic, not as an insult) to really serve as all that compelling a villain for the next expansion, and fandaniel (omnicidal/suicidal, refuses to interact at all outside of those capacities so there's nothing more to really get from him aside from the world getting worse as his actions continue) even less so.
especially after the one-two that was emet-selch (top-tier sympathetic/understandable villain) and elidibus (a mirrored/inverted player). zenos' arc basically wrapped itself up very nicely in stormblood, and he's just been lurking around overstaying his welcome since.

the only thing that'd make it worse would be that his goal of us both juicing ourselves up on the two elder-primals and duking it out backfires and he gets possessed by zodiark's now-heartless will, basically becoming a character that we neither know nor care about just for the sake of mechanical challenge/every FF's obligatory "giant space flea from nowhere" final ultimate boss fight.

[Recon1o6]

I really hope we get to smack zenos down like an afterthought. He has always been a plot device rather than a character and his disposal at the end of sb should have been the end of him as he was a rubbish boring villain even in SB. More often than not he doesn't even do anything- the black rose suddenly having more production sites out of nowhere only to to be destroyed by zenos seemed to be an excuse for him not to show up. The last few times he's appeared, he basically seemed to voice the playerbase's disdain for Fandaniel, not that he's immune from it himself what with cutting down varis before we could have our confrontation or begrudging alliance to stop the ascians.

As things stand though, Fandaniel is not going to be final boss material either even if he does reveal some curious information through that annoying voice of his. Zodiark would make for a climax boss or trial in all likelihood if he doesn't get hit by a deus ex machina