Zenos: The Big Bad (The Feedback Thread, Part 1)

[RyuDragnier]

The fact that he's playing a significant role in Fandaniel's schemes by manipulating the "dreamer" does give him more ability to be a threat in spite of otherwise being content to wait for us to come to him in Garlemald...though given what we know from pre-release material it seems like we're going there sooner then later so I feel like we're going to just have an initial encounter with him and his pet primal before he retreats to the moon to claim Zodiark.

He'll likely not even fight us, saying something on the lines of having to hold back his own bloodthirst until the rightful stage is set up, and then, and only then, will he fight us. Then leaving, with Fandaniel dropping a "gift" in the form of a boss for us to fight in the meantime.

[lezard21]

While generally I am not a fan of Kenpachi-like characters that only care about brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr fight strong opponent, I think Zenos was fine. Even him defying death and crossing the entire continent to get his body back to get more L33T FIGHTS was fun in a good way. And I really liked the twist that for all of their grandiose machinations, all of the plans of the Empire and the Ascians came crashing down thanks to a man with a petty objective. It gave it a Game of Thrones-y realistic feel to it back when Game of Thrones was good.

Maybe not "Final Big Bad" worthy, but Zenos was fine and would have been fine as a side antagonist that could potentially get in our way escalating things for the worse just to get to trade more fisticuffs with you.

But, as you can see, I say was.

It all gets vacuumed into the black hole of lameness that is Fandaniel the moment he steps into the plot. Fandaniel, so far, is a terrible villain.

While I'm not against nihilistic villains, it is a very weak motivation for a villain introduced so late into the story, particularly in it's last arc. It doesn't help the fact that he took on the body of one of the game's best and most hated villains* constantly reminding us that he is not living up to it. And he manages to make Zenos worse and more boring just by proximity. So yeah, not a fan at all of Zenos/Fandaniel being shaped up to be the final big bad ensemble.

*Editor's note: I better clarify before people get down my throat, note I say villain and not antagonist. Asahi's actions are all cruel and evil out of spite and pettiness which IMO makes him one of the game's few actual villains, whereas characters like Lahabrea, Thordan, Emet Selch, Fordola, Yotsuyu, Elidibus I consider them to be antagonists since they and their actions are more nuanced (to different degrees).

[SaberMaxwell]

Maybe Zenos or Fanny pull a Giliath Osborne and reveal they've been setting the stage intentionally for the only chance the heroes could have to purge the true danger from the land. After we've killed them ofc.

[Bright-Flower]

Ehhh....that 'could' be possible with Fandaniel though unlikely as he could be masking his true motivations behind his theatrics. However, I don't find it likely and there's virtually 0 chance that Zenos cares enough about things to be secretly trying to save the world.

Fandaniel initially just came across as 'discount kefka' to me, and to be fair that may end up being all he is. But while I didn't like him at first his last couple of scenes have been winning me over as an entertaining, if not deep, antagonist.

Zenos meanwhile I would have liked more if he'd stayed dead. His quest to reclaim his body could have been a great storyline, but it was rushed through and we never see him have to try or struggle. Aside from finding his 'all I want is to fight someone strong' motivation unappealing, part of my issue with him is he never seems to struggle. He never really has to 'try.' He basically seems to just brute force his way to getting his body back rather than needing to be clever or think outside the box, even able to overpower Varis and force Elidibus to flee despite being in a weaker body at the time. And while we have been giving setbacks to Zenos and Fandaniel's plans in 5.5, it feels more like Fandaniel specifically as Zenos' part hasn't really come into play.

It feels like everything effortlessly goes Zenos' way except for when the script says 'okay now it's time for him to lose' at the end of 4.0. This could be used to make him feel more threatening, but at the same time the game is adverse to giving his victories weighty consequences. Y'sthola getting hurt is just a means to give spotlight to other characters for a bit, Gaius and Estinien get away just fine. Yugiri isn't killed when her assassination attempt fails. For me it kind of puts Zenos in an awkward middle ground where he's overpowered but the consequences of him being overpowered are nullified by npc plot armor, preventing him from being a truly terrifying force within the story. He can trounce just about everyone, including the WOL pre ala mhigo, but isn't allowed to really hit us where it hurts. So he feels....both overpowered and defanged at the same time. He undoes Garlemald from within but that's not affecting characters we know and care about. He kills Varis but the ending of the negotiations kind of torpedoed Varis as a character already.