Thread: Request: by 6.0 please change the rules on PF against run sellers

Originally Posted by Caitsithhh

Generally ppl that have issues with logs and parsers are people that don’t do well when actually examined. Yet think they’re good enough to tackle high end content. There’s no issue whatsoever with parsers and logs. It’s a very very tiny vocal minority that are smootbrain’d enough to talk crap to people in game about actual numbers. Chill

Back to op, it’s totally legal and nothing wrong with it since there’s literally no Gil sinks in this game. Your blacklist OCD is a personal problem frankly...

Yeah, totally my problem when people are demanding you talk to them outside of the game for other things that aren't gil/items in game. I've managed to trick someone before to saying to me in game they were charging money through paypal just so I could report them.

And TOTALLY my fault that I don't want to see run sellers spamming the same tripe over and over, including using alt accounts GETTING AROUND THE BLACKLIST FEATURE, with a high chance they know that they're doing so.

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

If it was totally legal and nothing wrong with it they wouldn't have any problem talking to you in game over pricing now would they?

I've bought runs before for gil back in ARR when people were more cringy about anyone wanting to learn fights/having a newbie bonus

Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Coming from WoW. Run sellers will slowly and surely strangulate communication over the in-game channels so it would be for the best to snuff it out early even if it's just for gil.

I've seen their new rules about that, which is why I believe it should be something more games should enforce. In game currency/items as long as it's gil not bought from gil sellers? Sure.

Here's the little secret nobody tells you: Selling runs for gil is RMT, with literal money laundering.

Here's how it works:

1. Loser wants a boost.
2. Loser buys gil with cash from a botter
3. Loser pays the boosters with that gil.
3. Boosters sell the gil back to the botters for cash.

Loser gets the clear and loot, boosters and botters get paid in cash. The run was paid with gil, gil is besides the point here.

Selling runs, including asking or linking to discussions out of game should be against the TOS.

The TOS needs to be worded in such a way to allow the anti-cheating teams to suspend or ban users they know are cheating but can't do anything because "It's technically allowed because it's only gil".

Originally Posted by Rita1989

Selling runs for real money is against the ToS that's why they will never speak a word about in game. Also for stuff like ultimate's I heard they log into your character for you which is also against the ToS.

Not all runs are sold for RMT, and there is history of clearing with 7 members. There is almost an exact mirror of this post a few months back with relevant links.

What people do with the gil is unrelated and obviously banable if RMT is involved.

My point is, the isolated act of selling (or buying) a run is not against ToS.

I will save time linking to basically this same topic from a while back:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ears-and-items

With a relevant posts:

Originally Posted by kaynide

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1ek4y1k7rA

Ultima ultimate cleared with 7 people. I never specified any specific fight, just that if it were possible, people could make money.

There is a difference in stance that “all ultimates can be done with 7”, and “fights which can be done with 7 will see clear sales”. My point is the latter.

And

Originally Posted by kaynide

Not only is it not bannable, but is actually considered a legit transaction between players from the devs/GM point of view.

(Eg. Post from 2017 with GM being quoted as saying such: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post4500631 )

#28 on that thread:

GM:"I see, according to the logs they seem to only be selling runs for Gil and that they have it listed cross-world by default."
GM: "Selling runs for Gil is not against the terms of service."
GM: "I feel that I have everything I need to begin my investigation. Before I take my leave is there anything else that I may be able to assist you with today?"
I ask if they can request the advertisers to uncheck the option that has the listings being shown across the data center.
GM: "No I can not"
GM: "Players are allowed to do this and it would be interruption of their game play if I were to make them stop."
Me: Even though it's across the data center? (paraphrased)
GM: "That's correct."
Me: How are they receiving gil across servers? (paraphrased)
The GM then ends the conversation.

Originally Posted by M0rrigan

Couldn't SE just trick those run sellers by making fake accounts (the ones they will ask your info for and log to run said stuff) and track the players in that raid party and get rid of them? I assume those players need to have at least good gear which cost them effort and weeks/months to get, they're not as disposable as bot gil selling accounts that keep farming endlessly.

They could theoretically, but considering how little effort they put into controlling blatant illicit activity in-game I seriously doubt they'd ever take that much initiative against something that's happening outside.