How could you do this to AST?

[Rilifane]

I barely see any ast using neutral actually in this case if i get another ast and whatever sect they went to, they an do not be using neutral an entire raid or if they do, they use it at some wierd or not necessary moment and on pre pulls I use both shields and neutral too. So shield lovers are quite adaptable too and will use a full regen opener on pre pull as well via Noct CI

If you're doing a prepull regen opener and call it adaptable it's not wonder you struggle with Diurnal.

[IceBlueNinja]

2+2 = 4, and your opinion will never change that.

If the shield doesn't prevent death, then shielding for 300 is less efficient than regening for 700.

Ok and the 700 regen will never stop you from 1 death mechs like a shield has the ability to.

[ty_taurus]

Ok and the 700 regen will never stop you from 1 death mechs like a shield has the ability to.

Can you name 1 example of a boss attack that is a guaranteed 1-shot regardless of gear level and demands a shield to be survived?

[IceBlueNinja]

You don't need to have ACT to have logs.
Very unlikely to see a static or pug a tier without someone running ACT.

A pity since the ishgard restoration I had stop caring about savages and ultimates after E8, it does become boring and repetitive, eventually new gear come out and here you are again having to pug and what not all that gear becomes old news. Doing savages and ultimates aint the only way to enjoy the game, least not for me gathering and crafting has been quite entertaining now since I finally got into it, aiming for a good plot of land or what not so do not care atm about battle gear really.

[Rilifane]

Ok and the 700 regen will never stop you from 1 death mechs like a shield has the ability to.

Let me highlight for you what you so skillfully ignored.

If the shield doesn't prevent death, then shielding for 300 is less efficient than regening for 700.

If shielding isn't absolutely neccessary even after exhausting all other options to survive a hit, it's a waste. Period. You can still prefer it but that doesn't make it objectively better.
And there isn't a single mechanic that will be a guaranteed one shot regardless of gear level and with mitigation. I'm pretty sure you as an experienced savage raider have noticed that people don't just drop dead from ful HP because of one raidwide.

[IceBlueNinja]

Let me highlight for you what you so skillfully ignored.



If shielding isn't absolutely neccessary even after exhausting all other options to survive a hit, it's a waste. Period. You can still prefer it but that doesn't make it objectively better.
And there isn't a single mechanic that will be a guaranteed one shot regardless of gear level and with mitigation. I'm pretty sure you as an experienced savage raider have noticed that people don't just drop dead from ful HP because of one raidwide.

Ok the regens are better than shields yeah let me just agree to all of you and validate and acknowledge that .Heard it like 100 times or more. However whether normal stuff/raid stuff/ main point is idc regens from the it become some mere 15 seconds where I liked it better when it was 30 seconds, still prefer shields even if they are not necessary at current content. What is wrong with what some one prefer whether its bad or good or situational, its my choice of (preference) which is the key term here. What is it a crime to like something even if something is better than it? some play the job for regens some play it for shielding, hybrid jobs give players things they enjoy and options to pick from it, anyone gets annoyed when a hybrid job is being stripped of something. kill the cards now taking away noct stance, may as well remove both stance and let the job hard core focus its card function again. Do some interesting rework that lets the card do things like buff/heals/migi abit like the storm blood cards but better if everyone say that ast should have its own identity and not be a copied clone stronger whm (which do not say that saying mind you. just I see people say it who do not fancy ast period*

[ASkellington]

Ok the regens are better than shields yeah yeah let me just agree to yall Heard it like 100 times or more,whether normal stuff/raid stuff/ main point is idc regens from the it become some mere 15 seconds where I liked it better when it was 30 seconds, still prefer shields even if they are not necessary at current content. What is wrong with what some one prefer whether its bad or good or situational, its my choice of (preference) which is the key term here. What is it a crime to like something even if something is better than it? some play the job for regens some play it for shielding, hybrid jobs give players things they enjoy and options to pick from it, anyone gets annoyed when a hybrid job is being stripped of something. kill the cards now taking away noct stance, may as well remove both stance and let the job hard core focus its card function again. Do some interesting rework that lets the card do things like buff/heals/migi abit like the storm blood cards but better if everyone say that ast should have its own identity and not be a copied clone stronger whm (which do not say that saying mind you. just I see people say it who do not fancy ast period*

Pretty sure plenty of people have said that prefering Noct over Diurnal is fine. And no one is denying that AST losing Noct isn't losing another piece of its identity. But that's the thing, its a piece. The major identity of AST has been the cards. Not the dual stances. If dual stances was actually its thing, SE would've allowed/forced us to switch in combat to do both and be an actual hybrid.

Fact is removing Noctural sect allows AST to have oppertunities:

- Regain its buffing identity by having more of an emphasis on cards
- Give it a stronger healing identity other than WHM 2.0 or SCH lite
- No longer gives SE an excuse for AST's wonky balancing act.

Removing Noct not only gives rise to the potential of better AST balancing, but also SCH balancing, allows for SGE to even exist (because 3 shield healers?) and over all gives breathing room for healers. Does it suck that Noct is being axed? Yes. Would I have rather SE try to keep it while also adding in a fourth healer? (I didn't want a fourth healing to begin with but) Yes. But as I've said before, the pieces for Noct to be removed were already in place and if this means as an AST player I get:

A properly reworked healer that's no longer a WHM clone and/or
A better card system

I am 100% on board with Nocturnal's removal from the game.

[ty_taurus]

Ok the regens are better than shields yeah yeah let me just agree to yall Heard it like 100 times or more,whether normal stuff/raid stuff/ main point is idc regens from the it become some mere 15 seconds where I liked it better when it was 30 seconds, still prefer shields even if they are not necessary at current content. What is wrong with what some one prefer whether its bad or good or situational, its my choice of (preference) which is the key term here. What is it a crime to like something even if something is better than it? some play the job for regens some play it for shielding, hybrid jobs give players things they enjoy and options to pick from it, anyone gets annoyed when a hybrid job is being stripped of something. kill the cards now taking away noct stance, may as well remove both stance and let the job hard core focus its card function again. Do some interesting rework that lets the card do things like buff/heals/migi abit like the storm blood cards but better if everyone say that ast should have its own identity and not be a copied clone stronger whm (which do not say that saying mind you. just I see people say it who do not fancy ast period*

Something I think you failed to realize from the get-go was that no one was telling you that you can't enjoy Nocturnal Sect. When the (extremely unnecessary) back and forth began, people brought up that Nocturnal Sect wasn't frequently used anyway because even when paired with another Regen healer, Diurnal was superior from a mechanical stand-point. Barriers in the way they've been designed are just glorified pure heals, and since no mechanics will kill a party member at full health without a barrier, it doesn't serve a purpose (at least the way it's currently designed). You fought this constantly across pages and pages of this discussion--not just that you like barriers, but that the people stating this were wrong and didn't understand the value of barriers.

That is why this discussion has gone on for an ungodly amount of time. All you needed to do from the get-go was say "Okay, I get that regens are stronger, but I like barriers from a thematic standpoint and wish they would find a way to make it better rather than getting rid of it on AST."

There are plenty of ways they could make barriers more impactful. Look at Dark Knight: Blackest Night is a great example of how to make a barrier valuable. Not only do you get to negate a certain amount of damage, but if the barrier breaks, you get a free attack.

That would be great for Sage for example. When your barriers break, you fill up a gauge that you can burn on more powerful DPS. There are other possibilities too, some of which could've been used for Nocturnal Stance. What if buffing an ally who has a barrier refreshes the barrier's value and it's duration, so even though it's weaker than a regen on paper, you could keep it alive through OGCD tools to extend the benefit of having it? What if your barriers were a lot weaker, but rather than being eaten by damage, getting hit doesn't deplete it. The barrier just decreases damage received by that amount for every hit during it's duration? There are other things they could do with barriers.

You could've just directed the conversation that way rather than fight people who were just trying to get through to you that they weren't criticizing liking barriers, but the effect of barriers.

[IceBlueNinja]

Pretty sure plenty of people have said that prefering Noct over Diurnal is fine. And no one is denying that AST losing Noct isn't losing another piece of its identity. But that's the thing, its a piece. The major identity of AST has been the cards. Not the dual stances. If dual stances was actually its thing, SE would've allowed/forced us to switch in combat to do both and be an actual hybrid.

Fact is removing Noctural sect allows AST to have oppertunities:

- Regain its buffing identity by having more of an emphasis on cards
- Give it a stronger healing identity other than WHM 2.0 or SCH lite
- No longer gives SE an excuse for AST's wonky balancing act.

Removing Noct not only gives rise to the potential of better AST balancing, but also SCH balancing, allows for SGE to even exist (because 3 shield healers?) and over all gives breathing room for healers. Does it suck that Noct is being axed? Yes. Would I have rather SE try to keep it while also adding in a fourth healer? (I didn't want a fourth healing to begin with but) Yes. But as I've said before, the pieces for Noct to be removed were already in place and if this means as an AST player I get:

A properly reworked healer that's no longer a WHM clone and/or
A better card system

I am 100% on board with Nocturnal's removal from the game.

Fair point I respect that and agree was hoping the opposite that sage be pure heal and ast stay shielder tbh haha but all is good.

[IceBlueNinja]

Something I think you failed to realize from the get-go was that no one was telling you that you can't enjoy Nocturnal Sect. When the (extremely unnecessary) back and forth began, people brought up that Nocturnal Sect wasn't frequently used anyway because even when paired with another Regen healer, Diurnal was superior from a mechanical stand-point. Barriers in the way they've been designed are just glorified pure heals, and since no mechanics will kill a party member at full health without a barrier, it doesn't serve a purpose (at least the way it's currently designed). You fought this constantly across pages and pages of this discussion--not just that you like barriers, but that the people stating this were wrong and didn't understand the value of barriers.

That is why this discussion has gone on for an ungodly amount of time. All you needed to do from the get-go was say "Okay, I get that regens are stronger, but I like barriers from a thematic standpoint and wish they would find a way to make it better rather than getting rid of it on AST."

There are plenty of ways they could make barriers more impactful. Look at Dark Knight: Blackest Night is a great example of how to make a barrier valuable. Not only do you get to negate a certain amount of damage, but if the barrier breaks, you get a free attack.

That would be great for Sage for example. When your barriers break, you fill up a gauge that you can burn on more powerful DPS. There are other possibilities too, some of which could've been used for Nocturnal Stance. What if buffing an ally who has a barrier refreshes the barrier's value and it's duration, so even though it's weaker than a regen on paper, you could keep it alive through OGCD tools to extend the benefit of having it? What if your barriers were a lot weaker, but rather than being eaten by damage, getting hit doesn't deplete it. The barrier just decreases damage received by that amount for every hit during it's duration? There are other things they could do with barriers.

You could've just directed the conversation that way rather than fight people who were just trying to get through to you that they weren't criticizing liking barriers, but the effect of barriers.

I did that in my last post literally on the first line acknowledging the regen thing now instead of dragging this endless fight and agreed to everyone and just in the end easy thing to say I just prefer migitation even if its not needed. I agree with the idea you have and hope that again am sure we all want this that the cards really get something worth for vs this current boring same thing. Can always make memory vids for keeps before ast get change again like I did before sbh came with the old cards, good times and memories. Just will move on to sage if it has what I hope it will have as a new barrier healer and overall its aspect is fun looking.