How could you do this to AST?

[Ultimatecalibur]

bardam mettle are one such few examples I love using, something about that dungeon put a major dent on tanks no matter how much you spam regens cause idk some of these dungeons seem a little too bad ilvl sync , while you have dungeons like the current matoya dungeon that the mobs feels they barely even do damage.

Bardam's Mettle's difficulty was due to a 27% spike in gear Def and M.Def from ilevel 270 to 276. Matoya's Relict feels weak because the average tank goes in with 20%(i500) to 45%(i530) more Vit and 7%(i500) to 14%(i530) more Def/M.Def than the dungeon is designed for (i470).

[Rilifane]

In FFXIV's 2.0 to 2.55 state there were only two healers. WHM and SCH. It was actively bad to double up on either, if your group was serious. Not just for LB concerns, but because SCH's AOE healing at the time was rather limited by comparison.

We're basically reverting to that, but with more healers to choose from. Now we'll get a more interesting spread. Will Sage and WHM be the better pair? Sage and Ast? Or SCH and the others.

As far as Noct Ast goes... I am sad to see it go. While Ast obviously wasn't designed with its shield stance being its primary function, it certainly had a leg up over SCH in this regard, since SCH had to rely on the Fairy and Aetherflow abilities to really top people. It also had the leg up that the single target shield was instant cast, opposed to SCH's having to be pre-cast for tank busters and such. It's also a shame that the playerbase doesn't really embrace shield healing, because it takes a modicum of thought and fight memorization. Meanwhile regens go Brrrrrrrr!

Like even nowadays, people literally argue that shields are irrelevant for most fights, which is true, but man, idk, to me it's satisfying to see a tank buster do 0 damage. But nah man, lemme just go back to casting almost nothing but Broil/Malefic. Top tier gameplay, top tier efficiency. Clearly the most fun, too.

One thing that some people here don't seem to understand is that if you're talking about efficiency and toptier gameplay, feelings, fun, personal preferences and "that one time in DF" aren't part of the equation because else you can't stay objective. Balance is not done on a feelycraft level. It needs to compare hard numbers and facts, not what something feels or perceives.
This is not saying that you aren't allowed to play the way you prefer nor that balance and fun have to be mutually exclusive or that anyone adressing balancing concers is automatically against having fun or doesn't sometimes knowingly plays suboptimal because it's more fun.

And shields in general are objectively weaker than regens in their current design. Period. Unless you need them to survive a hit at full HP with mitigation up there is no reason to use them over a more efficient tool that has higher potency and thus gets more done for one weave or, at worst, one GCD.

Optimised regen healing takes much more thought and coordination than you give credit for because you're working without the comfy eHP buffer shields offer while avoiding GCD heals at all costs, meaning you need to carefully map the fight aswell or else you are forced to GCD heal and lose dps instead of gaining it. It's not uncommon to see people drop very low (like low 4 digits low) and staying there for a bit until natural regens and healer regens did their thing. That's not done by braindead freestyling a fight, that's calculated.

If talking about optimised gameplay, the top priority is keeping your Broils, Glares and Malefics rolling while only healing the absolute bare minimum with oGCDs above all else and GCDs only when absolutely neccessary and every other option has been exhausted. Is it fun? Obviously not, else we wouldn't have so many complaints about current state of healers with people begging left and right for a more complex dps rotation because spamming one nuke for 90% of your GCDs and the rest being dot refreshes it not fun for anyone.

It is satisfying to watch a buster do zero damage as it is satisfying to watch shields not even break after doing the full triple shield Neutral preopener, which is why I still did it at e7s even though I knew perfectly well it was unneccessary. The latter doesn't interfer with your dps but if you were to do something like that infight, it would be a waste of dps and unneccessary. Period. There is nothing to argue about, it's inefficient because it's not neccessary and could've been solved in a way that's not losing you dps.

That said, it's fine to play however you want in content where it doesn't matter; I spent my fair share of timing messing around and definitely playing suboptimal and I know it. Nothing wrong with having fun if it's not to the detriment of the party. If your preference is playing a shield healer and shielding busters to the point of shields not even breaking, that's fine. But don't confuse it with efficiency.
Preferences and feelings are not the same as being objectively efficient.

[Vyrerus]

And shields in general are objectively weaker than regens in their current design.

Wrong. Fight design makes regens objectively better for almost all content. Conceptually Shields are always more powerful than Regens, because while Regens have greater healing potency, Shields grant temporary HP, allowing for living through things players shouldn't, while also expanding the Healer role's power to influence the Tank's efficacy.

You underestimate me. I know full well that actually optimizing regens is a pain in the ass. That doesn't change its power conceptually. The most powerful regen in the world won't save you from a hit that deals 1 more HP than your HP total. If they wanted to, they could balance fights such that shields are required for every single raid wide, or all non-tanks die. They don't do this in hardly anything.

[Rilifane]

I know full well that actually optimizing regens is a pain in the ass.

Then don't argue in a way that makes you seem like you don't or imply that shields need more thought or planning. Healbotting doesn't need planning either way. Optimising needs a lot of planning in both cases.

Wrong. Fight design makes regens objectively better for almost all content. Conceptually Shields are always more powerful than Regens, because while Regens have greater healing potency, Shields grant temporary HP, allowing for living through things players shouldn't, while also expanding the Healer role's power to influence the Tank's efficacy.

Yes and no.
You can redesign fights that they require specific, even generally weaker skills. You can redesign skills, that they're now generally worse or better. Both are valid ways to go about this or better yet, a combination.
Regens grant healing without having to actively heal, shields grant HP beyond the usual HP pool. Both are concepts that are stronger depending on the situation. Shields may protect you against a hit that would otherwise kill you while regens can heal you even while incapacitated or having your skills blocked from a mechanic. The latter is an unknown concept in FFXIV and I don't expect to ever see it here but has seen some use in other games.
It comes down to fight design and skill design. Shields are conceptually strong in a vacuum but wether they are in the field aswell comes down to what limitations they devs put on them.

But current fight design is what it is and a lot of arguments were made with current fight design, not some hypothetical paralel world. And not even current savage requires shields aside from a few scenarios that will never apply to the vast majority of raiders, leaving regens ahead and as the more efficient tool - if planned properly.

That doesn't change its power conceptually. The most powerful regen in the world won't save you from a hit that deals 1 more HP than your HP total. If they wanted to, they could balance fights such that shields are required for every single raid wide, or all non-tanks die. They don't do this in hardly anything.

That much is true but I'd like to stay somewhat realistic.
And with the overall design we have, shields are weaker than regens in most scenarios with a few exceptions that only apply to a very small minority. And I think we all have an inkling about how SE goes about fights by now.

[Bright-Flower]

It's probably better this way for the game overall, but I do feel bad for ASTs that enjoy noct.

In particular any NOCT ASTs that preferred the pre SHB card system this has got to feel like a one two punch.

[Jade3173]

It's probably better this way for the game overall, but I do feel bad for ASTs that enjoy noct.

In particular any NOCT ASTs that preferred the pre SHB card system this has got to feel like a one two punch.

always enjoyed shield healing, not so much pets, so N.AST was great for me. Also miss the old cards, very worried what's going to happen to this job (and role) come 6.0

[IceBlueNinja]

always enjoyed shield healing, not so much pets, so N.AST was great for me. Also miss the old cards, very worried what's going to happen to this job (and role) come 6.0

yup first the SB cards now noct sect as bright flower said, this is a double punch in the face, if anything we can always give sage a try and hope its single shield will be similar to aspected benefic shield which is instant cast

[Recon1o6]

yup first the SB cards now noct sect as bright flower said, this is a double punch in the face, if anything we can always give sage a try and hope its single shield will be similar to aspected benefic shield which is instant cast

Triple. we lost our time magic as well

[IceBlueNinja]

Triple. we lost our time magic as well

Yup also the fact that time mages has reflect which is technically a type of barrier makes think sage should have been pure healer instead and we keep noct and they remove dirunal since ast is pretty much seen as a time mage like job, It be nice if they give us heavy support spells then to make up for this mess such as slow.

[Luin]

They said we'd be "pure healers" in Shadowbringers, nothing changed. They're saying the exact same thing this expansion, and meaning something entirely different.

We've been shown nothing about our new skills, Sage's new skills, or what's being cut. This is a kneejerk reaction.

edit - And I see AST drama. Cards only ever increased damage, cards like Bole/Ewer while potentially strong were unreliable and couldn't be planned around. Getting anything that didnt increase damage was bad. Functionally, the cards have not changed.

When comparing healers, use combined Healer DPS metrics. AST+SCH's major strength is their ogcd healing. Just looking at AST's rDPS doesn't show AST's full strength. It has the most rDPS contribution, the most mobility, and the best healing kit. It's overpowered.

While its discouraged to have 2 phys R and 2 casters its not an actively bad choice.

The physical ranged role is literally only viable due to the 1% unique role bonus.