Nothing makes me want to die quite like frontline

[Divinemights]

lol, dude... you don't need 15,000 games to see everything there is to see in FL maps design. You probably don't even need 100. You're acting like FLs are some kind of deep and intricate combat design but they're extremely simple. Was this your first PvP experience in an MMO or games like this or something? Anyone that's spent time playing the Guild Wars games, DAOC, or even just WoW's arenas and rated BGs knows everything you're already saying. XIV's map design isn't even particularly intricate, especially the earlier maps. You can see marked improvements in the later maps, Onsal Hakair especially (OH is pretty much literally a better Seal Rock.)

I'm glad to hear that SEA/JP servers don't have the problem, but NA and EU servers do... and this is the NA/EU section of the forums.

Fortunately, I don't think SE is going to repeat their past mistakes. It sure sounds like the new mode they're working on will be a traditional red vs blue affair. Making a 1v1v1 game that isn't garbage requires a lot of time and energy, and PvP is never going to get the attention required to make that really excel. It's also, presumably, very difficult for them to make meaningful adjustments to existing maps, which makes it even more challenging for them to keep the games competitive and interesting.

From what I see, your perspective of view starts from NA is the master race and forgot the designer is Asian and they intends their audience for everyone, not just NA.
Your idea sounds like if something doesn't work for NA, it is bad and need to be changes; in another word, just blame on system for people's own incompetence.
Original Battle High is very reasonable: you need to kill 4 people straight to gain first buff then you lost everything once killed and everything reset.
It needs to be change because there are people on this fourm complaining it is difficult for casuals to gain BH.

SE changed it into current and now you still thinks it is unfair and totall ignorce the main cause is people refuse to learn and expecting this like a freaking FPS game
If casual or glamour farmer don't learn, there are so many people on this forum don't need any BH buff to kill these people with 100% BH, that is a fact
You can keep thinking that way but nevertheless you will not change the fact the flaws of 1 v 1 is just too much and boring
Blame everything on map design /faceplam

[Ralph2449]

You're acting like FLs are some kind of deep and intricate combat design but they're extremely simple

I ve played a ton of mmorpgs and FF14 is the first notable example that has such a system where games rarely snowball in one direction, based on my experience who is winning at the start means very little(It can actually be dangerous cuz you might get more attention) because the game can change really fast to any direction near its end and that is mainly achieved through the 1v1v1 design and map design, the former being more important obviously.

I think what she is saying is clear, this isnt about map design, it is about the mentality western players bring when joining a random pug, the map design can definitely be used to your advantage in an organized premade, that is true for literally any game, but for a pug full of random players that is a very different story, and if they fail to do that and for example team 2 decides to fight against team 3 that is losing badly and thus leaving team 1 to get all the points unchallenged, that is a player issue, not a design issue.


And you might need to remember, a game where random people join is a far far different game to a very easy and simple to coordinate premade, which is something that has ruined the experience of many people in many games when the devs forget to ban premades from going against random pugs which should never be allowed to happen and I am still surprised veteran mmorpg devs keep doing that mistake.

If all the western population as a random pug can do is just blindly move with a group and blindly attack everyone instead of check the map and take advantage of it, that is their issue, I ve only played in JP servers and I rarely ever feel like a game is lost though of course it is not immune to it, there was a recent one where team 1 was literally left to take everything while 2-3 were fighting pointlessly xD

[Nayout]

Look, we have things to complain about in the PVP but most of the problems come from the community itself as Divine comments, I have more than 2000+ games played and thanks to the current Moogle event my Win rate low from 49% to 32% because there is a lack of competitiveness in the mindset of both NA and EU players.

People are not going to learn, they are not going to win and do their best at Frontline, they are going to be dead weight as long as they have no idea to play with classes that are simplified to a stupid level. You can't wait much longer if even in the star mode of this game, which is its PVE, people are just as bad. Many problems like those discussed here do not come from the systems, they come from people and precisely this current event is the perfect example because I have seen how the quality of players has dropped and if you try to guide them they ignore you.

[Mistress_Irika]

Honestly I would like certain things for frontlines reverted. It's because of what we're left with that makes things a bit unenjoyable. The mindset I see these days is don't care about the game since majority don't care to win it. I would like to speak out against it, but I do see one person every once in a blue moon get ganged up in chats for caring about the match results instead of just having fun or just getting exp.

These days I actively avoid Onsal and Seize due to the mindsets that's there despite the 2 modes having the longest daily lifespan. It's just not worth playing for me anymore.

[Kyrj]

People are not going to learn, they are not going to win and do their best at Frontline.

And why should they? Frontline and pvp is an afterthought for SE, so that's how the playerbase is going to treat it.

[Nayout]

And why should they? Frontline and pvp is an afterthought for SE, so that's how the playerbase is going to treat it.

Of course, people do not use their brains in PVP because of what you say and not because of the mentality of this game, it is not that this reddit did not exist where you totally lose hope in the game community or posts like these, right?
https://www.reddit.com/r/TalesFromDF/new/
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...s-that-coexist

Try to sell this narrative to someone else who does not know the community of this game

[Divinemights]

Some people’s view on the Frontline is just like a frog lived in a well. That is all they knew in their tiny world. There is no cure for ignorance, it can only be educated.

[apophis13]

Look, PvP is almost always gargage in every game. Though, it's especially garbage in MMOs. The reason is that people are smart...so smart in fact that they'll just figure out how to cheat the system and move on. That's how it is, and how it always will be. PvP is usually about doing things that are cheesy and cheaty and not fun. That's literally all it is. And, then, you know, there's a 10% twitch factor. But, it's 90% cheating/exploiting always, usually grey (legal) cheating, but sometimes otherwise.

I've been doing the PvP dailies for a couple of months because of the XP. Actually, for a while, I was winning over a third of matches. But, I remember when PvP started, you would never win because Maelstrom won every match because of alliance scamming. Well, over the past couple of weeks, I've noticed the same thing again. People who queue and join win 0% of matches again. I assume that some form of cheating/exploiting/alliance scamming is happening again, though this time, it's not obvious why. But, overwise, the odds are low that you'd throw a 1/3 chance every time for 20 times and never get a 3, but that's what's happening lately, and other people are noticing the same, very much so. I know a dozen people that haven't won a single match in weeks. So, clearly, mathematically, it's broken.

At any rate, I'd love to know when the exploit is patched, and I'll be happy to play Frontline again at that point. Everyone have fun!

[Rhos]

You guys are programmed by the community to hate PvP
"PvP is an afterthought" I heard this many times, its as if your listening to your community hero's like a good little puppy repeating their command/words. Good boy.

Also another issue I see a lot. People complaining about PvP being broken and "things not going their way" I know in PvE your used to everything repeating itself and everything going your way because you know what to expect. But this is PvP.
Real PvPers DGAF about things not going their way. They are used to change, unexpected things, and dealing with adapting to what's going on around them. Stick to your boring, repeating, PvE and leave PvP to the PvPers. Kbai! o/

[apophis13]

I will say I enjoyed Frontlines a lot more when we could queue as full premades and before forced freelancer.

Did you also enjoy the 8 hour queues because no one would play with you because Mael won literally every fight? People aren't going to play a game that they have zero chance of winning. And, Alliance scamming causes exactly that. I think that they should completely cancel all groups in Frontlines. It would make it way more fair.