Monk Rework just brought us back to 2.0 MNK but with no GL.

[Palladiamors]

I will never for the life of me understand the weird infatuation with Greased Lightning. It was an unfun, clunky mechanic that forced a build up to a degree no other job had to deal with and then a maintain that was tedious at the best of times and impossible at the worst. It was never monks 'identity', it was a blockade to monks identity, which is a flurry of weaker attacks as opposed to Dragoons slower, heavier hitting ones. Both Dragoon and Samurai's buildups are for fairly low additions to DPS and or speed while also being an important part of their rotations, while monks encompassed a far larger portion of their damage and speed increase while either requiring special means or simply more time to reach max stacks an in exchange they did similar DPS for unarguable more buildup and maintain. Having Twin Snakes be the only personal maintain puts them far more in line with other DPS classes while not sacrificing their actual identity, speed.

With Greased Lightning as a mechanic gone this allows them to focus more on the core of the job and move away from having to go to such great lengths to maintain a single buff. That being said, the jury is out on whether or not they'll be able to capitalize on this or not. This is the team that went into Shadowbringers with Summoners in the shape they were in. But flipside, its also the team that managed to fix summoners in a fairly satisfying fashion before all was said and done so...we'll see. I'm expecting fairly large changes for both jobs in the next expansion either way.

[IruruCece]

This was a joke

It's a bad joke and a terrible comparison to make, you even know that it's bad but you keep digging that hole. Nice.

It's a forum...not everything in here is substantial. Just a way to blow off steam and speak our opinions. I take EVERYTHING in here with a grain of salt. I ignore most (not all) comments designed to elicit an reflex of emotional reaction.

So would you say that your opinion is that being asked to move your videogame catgirl from one side of a boss to another shares a striking similarity to verbally abusing your partner for accidentally deleting a recording off the DVR? I'm genuinely curious.

[ssunny2008]

snip

Of course noone will miss positionals on NIN, because you can stay like 99% of the time behind the boss already. But the whole kit of NIN works slightly different and you´ve the ninjutsu to take care about. Monk has nothing anymore to care about but positionals and those are fun to play.
What do you need to take care about on MCH, DNC or RDM? Pressing a buff here and there because of overheat? Dancing because the buff is gone? Going for the melee combo because you got enough mana? Those are only some buttons you press when limit X is reached or buff Y is gone. Do you really call that fun or engaging? If yes, then it shows where you´re coming from. It´s something you´ve to take care about, but it´s not hard to take care about and not hard to play.

There is a big gap between "somehing was made simpler" or "something is so simple, that it´s pretty much dumb".
Yes, warrior is easy to play as any tank is since ShB changes. Stormeye was more of an overall damage buff than QoL. Nascent got dumb´d down and the most probably don´t even use it to take care for others anymore. I call that a step back in game design. Half of the players probably don´t even know that they can assist the MT with it or to safe the unlucky DPS from the dead. It only caters solo play.

Tbh, what you write down let me highly doubt that you´re a decent player. You want to rely on your QoL things. "Oh yeah i can spam my AOE in 10 mobs at once, hehe." I see a lot of such guys here and there in dungeons or bozja dieing at the first boss mechanic.
It´s okay for me. The game is for everyone. But the game has more than enough casual content and classes. QoL is one thing if it´s needed, but the most stuff IS NOT. Playermade issues because you don´t want to improve, because you want to rely on "123 gimme loot please!". It´s annoying. There are other players too, who are ready to read the skills, to improve themself and to play something challenging.

And about "real changes". Those are not needed every year. New content and boss mechanics make the difference. If you want to get ride of positionals on monk, i want to see positionals on any physical range and range based damage on magical ones. Would you enjoy such real changes? I don´t think so.
Classes in MMO´s should always fit their major role and the subclasses should have different playstyles. I´ve mentioned it above, DRK vs WAR is the best example. They´re nearly exact the same class in the core. The only real difference is that the DRK has more magical defs and the WAR life depended / heal ones. This is a lazy design and it´s not even a thing to say "FF14 has 4 tank classes to enjoy!". It´s a lie. Maybe a thing on paper, but gameplay-wise a lie.

[ssunny2008]

I fail to see how your static on a boss, when there are numerous mechanics that get in the way. In the case of monk (which WAS unique with GL uptime) had to be engaged with the boss to generate more GL. Compound this with positional's, AOE, mechanics, with GL? GL was the one thing that needed to be abolished to not change EVERYTHING else for one job. That's the past now. Look towards the future.

Your argument is based on Monk HAS to move around like a moron to be unique. Pretty loose argument. That's like saying Paladin has to jump twice to block. Silly.

Imagine lots of poeple are able to play those numerous mechanics AND positionals and still do their job as a dps. Meanwhile others, who don´t have to care about anything than mechanics, still asking for a phys. range buff and die poorly in an avoidable AOE.
Your logic fails, because more than enough players proofed that any content was doable as monk and still is. Positionals were never an issue as much as GL wasn´t especially with the maintaining skills we had in ShB. It´s up to players like you, who wants to change a class completely, because you want to play that "because it looks cool" or for whatever reason. It´s not like FF14 has only 1 class you rely on. But that´s gonna happen when SE goes straight up that why of dumping down any class to a pointless 123 rotation with off gcd´s you just press for more damage, not because they bring anything to the class, the party or whatever. They´re there, you press them, that´s all.

Monks biggest core aspect was always about positionals and it´s engaging to play and to adjust here and there to certain boss mechanics. Nothing could be more boring than staying at the boss "123,456, oh i have to move to marker A, 123,456."
Positionals are not even so hard to play once you got used to them and the overall primitive boss design from SE does a lot to it. Next to some bad uptime mechanics, it follows a strict pattern you can get used to aswell and it´s pretty much the same on any bigger boss: AOE/TB -> mechanic 1 -> AOE/TB -> mechanic 2 -> AOE -> mechanic 3 -> AOE into phase 2 -> mechanic 4 (or 1) -> AOE -> mechanic 5 -> AOE into phase 3 -> advanced phase 1 mechanics....etc....

It´s always the same on any savage boss and anyone can get used to it with any class. And there we´ve some easy to play chars with less damage (phys. range) and medi or more challenging classes with a higher damage output where you actually have to care about something.
Again, if you cut this or that again and again, SE should get ride of any class and give the player 5 skills on the hand to play with and then all seems fine right? No it´s not. It´s no fun to have such limited variety and no different playstyles. Pressing some nonamed buttons in a highlighted combo is no fun. If that is what you call fun, then you should stuck in dungeons, because you don´t need any form of skill or knowledge to complete them.

All that casualization needs to stop! No serious endgame player wants that. And for everything else, you can be double left handed and ignoring timings or positionals anyway. Enjoy that stuff and stop trying to destroy the fun of others.

Oh and btw action MMO´s are the new ones and a lot of ppl enjoy to dodge and block by themself in the right moment. Doesn´t sound silly to me to jump twice so.

[Sqwall]

I will never for the life of me understand the weird infatuation with Greased Lightning. It was an unfun, clunky mechanic that forced a build up to a degree no other job had to deal with and then a maintain that was tedious at the best of times and impossible at the worst. It was never monks 'identity', it was a blockade to monks identity, which is a flurry of weaker attacks as opposed to Dragoons slower, heavier hitting ones. Both Dragoon and Samurai's buildups are for fairly low additions to DPS and or speed while also being an important part of their rotations, while monks encompassed a far larger portion of their damage and speed increase while either requiring special means or simply more time to reach max stacks an in exchange they did similar DPS for unarguable more buildup and maintain. Having Twin Snakes be the only personal maintain puts them far more in line with other DPS classes while not sacrificing their actual identity, speed.

With Greased Lightning as a mechanic gone this allows them to focus more on the core of the job and move away from having to go to such great lengths to maintain a single buff. That being said, the jury is out on whether or not they'll be able to capitalize on this or not. This is the team that went into Shadowbringers with Summoners in the shape they were in. But flipside, its also the team that managed to fix summoners in a fairly satisfying fashion before all was said and done so...we'll see. I'm expecting fairly large changes for both jobs in the next expansion either way.

This person get's it

[Sqwall]

Given the lack of context in the response I'm not going to quote the above. I can't simply read the above without a sense of "Get GUD" in the subtext.

That being said: Monk for me was never about making it simple or dumb to play. It was about removing obstacles in place to put in place BETTER ones.

"GL was an obstacle....now it's gone. I enjoy the class now. Way more fun."

"Positionals are an obstacle...a crappy "job playstyle"....let's find a better one shall we."

"Oh wait? There are people crying about how positionals make monk what it is!"

"Is that so?... what would you say if we added something better then positionals and added real depth other then just...rotate to the back...rotate to the side?"

Sign me the F up!


No your argument is has no logic, your argument keeps the class in the mud, your argument completely undermines evolution of a class which has been subjugated to COUNTLESS arguments that the job NEEDS improvement.

If you truly believe positionals should stay over a new BETTER alternative...you are truly never going to be happy with any job changing. Cry about WAR all you want....those days are over. But I would emphasis you look towards what it will be in 6.0 rather then miss the good old days. All tanks are simple and clean to play now, and at the end of the day they do the job of what is asked of them. If you want your Warrior to blast more damage then a BLM? In your words...go play BLM.

I hate that comment... "Ugh you hate playing positionals on monk?.... Go PlAy McH oR BaRd YoU FiLtHy CaSuAl!" That is such a dumb argument, and that's not to make me a better player, or to help me get through savage/extreme/ultimate. Your simply telling me what to do, and your only answer is "Your not a decent player". WOW! I only WISH I could be JUST like you. *sarcasm*

Newsflash: It's a game and I don't get payed to be the best and I'm ok with that. However, I do pay a monthly sub to expect a good experience which we do get. Why should this not extend to player feedback to the devs. Crying out loud ENEGRY DRAIN was ADDED back in for scholars! I'm sure if you tried hard enough you could get GL added back as well. I dare you! Won't see me stopping you! Give it your best shot!

Better yet let's put stance dancing back in for tanks! Let's see how the community reacts to this, HELL better put Diversion back in as well to counter the agro! Might as well cancel the expansion and delete Shadowbringers and just continue with Stormblood. The top tier players have spoken and Stormblood is the stage they want to stay at.

In closing: I will never give up my campaign to make Monk the most fun class to play, removing GL was the first step. And I will be waiting with abated breath on your retort...this should be good. *more sarcasm*

[ssunny2008]

snip

It´s not about git gud, it´s about "leaving the core of a class as it is".

I´ve told you how "unique" classes are, proof me wrong if you want. What you want to force is to make monks or melees overall even more a no-brainer. You can´t even come with a great idea, how SE could bring more depth to the class. And guess what? It´s impossible. Positionals and skill effects which rely on them are 1000 times better than any "press a button when you reach limit X" mechanics you´ve on nearly any class in this game. Just because a class fits its role, doesn´t mean it´s fun to play if you just have 3 buttons to care about.

We all pay our sub, millions of players do and all enjoy different playstyles or content. It´s just selfish to come up like "please change the whole class, because i like to play it without this or that.", when thousands of other players enjoy it as it is and all match together in some way.
Think whatever you want, but it´s not dumb to say "play an easier class" or "then ignore positionals". You don´t need them for any content but savage or ultimate. It´s a minimum of a 10% damage loss if you stuck behind the boss. If you can´t live with that damage loss, then go play something else. FF14 offers enough classes to play and to enjoy. Again, there is no need to destroy the fun for others in exchange of another "1 click mechanic".

I won´t even talk about the other nonsense and sarcasm stuff you´ve written down there. You´ve nothing to say then "I want...easy please... because i don´t want to play it as it is right now!". Your knowledge, ideas, gamesense and arguments lack hard.

[wereotter]

Monk's postionals are not what make it unique. They are what hold it back. Dancing around the boss/mob like a moron to play optimally isn't fun to me. There are times when I just become so lazy that I don't even move for positionals just out of protest. True north and RoE are nice, but MAN do I miss that 30 secs from RoE, albeit clunky to activate by getting hit.

If you don't like positional attacks, then monk is not the job for you. Full stop. Every single-target move has a requirement, which is unlike any other job in the game. They're not hard to master, and if you're trying to say that they hold the job back, that's an excuse for laziness or stubbornness to not play the job correctly. Every single melee job, literally every one, has positional requirements. There's zero reason to delete that from monk. Not to mention that with between True North and now Riddle of Earth not requiring you to take damage to nullify positional requirements, there is enough in the kit to adjust when the situation calls for it.

Monk does need help to build back into its identity for sure, but that's because so much of what made monk monk was the urgency and attention you had to pay to maintaining your greased lightning buff. They changed that to a passive trait, but didn't replace it with anything... yet. So we have to wait and see what happens in 6.0 to what kind of identity the job gets.

[Satarn]

I hate the positional playstyle of MNK, but I love the fun gameplay of punching and kicking. If that makes sense?

Nope, no it doesn't.

Honest question: do you actually like MNK gameplay? Do you really?
You apparently hated Greased Lightning and now that it's been removed you say you hate positionals, which are about the last thing that sets MNK apart from the other melees - next to the slightly more dynamic combo system, but I don't see you singing praises to that mechanic anywhere either. Instead you say you love the "gameplay of punching and kicking" but that's not actually gameplay - it's aesthetic. You could slap MNK animations on literally any other melee job in the game and you'd have "a punching and kicking job".

The FFXIV community imo has a huge problem of people who like certain aesthetics but dislike the playstyles tied to them, who feel entitled to demand a job be completely flipped on its head just so they can play with the pretty animations for a bit, while completely shitting on the people who actually enjoyed the job's gameplay and are left with nothing as a result. Sadly SE, in their misguided pursuit to appease everyone at once instead of properly catering to niches, keeps listening to those players and the multitude of jobs the game offers are gradually turning into little more than just cosmetic options.

[IruruCece]

Your simply telling me what to do, and your only answer is "Your not a decent player".

I mean, they aren't wrong. If you hate positionals to the point where you're ignoring them entirely, you're probably not good at Monk compared to someone who is actually engaging with the mechanics and outperforming you. This is wild to me because before this patch you could set yourself up to have a solid minute in any given fight ignoring that aspect of the job.

If the problem you have is that people are better than you at the job because they are doing what it asks of them, the problem isn't with the job, and the job certainly didn't abuse those players into moving their character an arbitrary distance around the boss to do so, either.