Then why was GL such an issue then? Because it can fall off and you need to build it up, right? If its DPS output is still enough, then why was it changed?
Originally Posted by IruruCece
Honestly, it doesn't really matter to me. All I know is that another interesting idea was t0rn (pardon the pun) out and we got a more boring job as a result. That's the cycle we always repeat.
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02-05-2021 12:26 AM #21Player
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Posts
- 2,336
- Character
- Payadopa Astraya
- World
- Spriggan
- Main Class
- Conjurer Lv 71
(4)
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02-05-2021 01:17 AM #22Player
- Join Date
- Mar 2014
- Posts
- 577
- Character
- Micela Arzur
- World
- Shiva
- Main Class
- Pugilist Lv 90
To simplify one class after the other IS a bad thing. Maybe not for mighty casuals, but for a lot of other players. There is a reason why so many players left such static combat MMO´s to play the action ones, because the combat brings much more enjoyment instead of staying on one spot and 123,123... It happens again and again and made me even stop playing for a while on my main char when the tanks got such a great rework that you don´t have to care about anything anymore. Tankstance ftw! 123 and then 1 button spam 5 times in a row. No armorpierce, dd stance or whatever anymore. Just keep your damage buff up, wow...
Originally Posted by Aeliott
It´s the same with monk now or with machinist before. As monk the opener is the exact stuff you do all the fight. 123,456 and off gcd spam. The only fun aspect are still the positionals. The rest has become even more annoying with less movement speed and that you´ve to spam other stuff to have the same effect you had with 1 click before. The current monk probably doesn´t even attract more players. You´re still that dumb melee with positionals 90% of players can´t play or don´t care about for different reasons.
Don´t take it too negative, but you seem to be a machinist main for a long time now. Moving from A to B mechanical wise and still pressing some buttons without any need to care about anything is nothing but boring to me. Even tanks have a "harder" job since they´re melee, have to press defs here and there and have to adjust with the boss.
If SE continues to simplify more and more jobs, they should get ride of savage and ultimate too. Just bring more brain afk dungeons and tons of glam, Limsa Lominsa will be happy. Gameplay-wise it makes no sense to play a holy-trinity-MMORPG like this, if the classes and content are not unique, interesting and challenging anymore.(0)
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02-05-2021 06:03 AM #23Player
- Join Date
- Aug 2019
- Posts
- 263
- Character
- Iruma Ceceyigen
- World
- Cactuar
- Main Class
- Samurai Lv 90
Because a lot of players complained about losing GL despite SE having dedicated the majority of Monk's new toys this expansion specifically to trying to preserve it, effectively invalidating a lot of the work the devs put into the job. It also doesn't help that a lot of those new toys weren't very good or interesting to begin with. It also doesn't help that Monk has historically been a lower population job, either because of a lack of visual appeal, or the demands it placed on players. There's a thread on the boards right now where positionals are now the target of someone's ire and they want them removed from the game... and they weren't even complaining about Monks directly, the job that has more positionals than anyone other!
Originally Posted by Payadopa
Now, I ain't sayin' that Monk is some sort of job for the HARDCORE ELITE RAIDERS out there, it's nothing of the sort. It never has been. It always has been easy to land positionals, it always has been easy to maintain GL so long as you kept landing your combos. But I do think the job has been PERCIEVED as being difficult to play. Honestly, if someone like me could have stuck with it through HW and SB, it probably wasn't very hard to play lmao
The thing is, the tools provided in ShB worked more or less as intended in fights where control or access to the boss wasn't stripped away from the player for periods of time longer than the buff could last. The problem is that encounter design has regularly been unfriendly to GL maintenance for some time, and with ShB it hit an absurd peak with long cutscenes which, while cool the first time through, ended up being little more than glaring reminders that SE placed visual aesthetics before the gameplay of one specific job. Reminders that can't be skipped in any way whatsoever. And it's not like these phase transitions have TP to worry about anymore!
The problem with GL is entirely the result of SE failing to provide a workable means to preserve the buff whenever they decide that a fight needs a phase transition that goes on longer than GL ever last. They consistently went with an "all or nothing" approach to GL, you either had it, or you didn't. It even extended to Steel Peak- Sorry, Tornado Kick, for the longest time, which basically meant that an OG capstone skill only place on our bars was for phase changes where we knew we'd lose GL anyway... except they also gave us Six Sided Garbage to try preserving it (while designing fights with phase changes that still outlast the buff timer anyway). Ultimately, rather than actually fix the problems with retaining GL in these extended fights that our new tools were never built to account for, they just gave up on it entirely.
It's stuff like this that makes me unexcited for Monks in 6.0, because the devs have an extensive history of failing to address painpoints with the job. GL is gone, but we still have three elemental fists, only one of which actually matters to any degree, which have survived multiple button culls and replacements despite having this problem essentially since ARR???? At least prior to killing off GL, we had TWO elemental fists worth leaving on the bars.
More frustrating, when players have figured out how to work with this janky kit, the devs have come in to say "No, that's not what we intended." They did it for the old TK rotation, they did it with Anatman in our opener (and then resolved one of the biggest problems people had with Anatman in the first place by making it TICK IMMEDIATELY ON USE like COME ON SE what the hecking heck). I'm just waiting for them to remove Bootshine from our kit because maybe we weren't intended to have the most powerful part of our combo be the darn opening attack.(0)Last edited by IruruCece; 02-05-2021 at 06:07 AM.
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02-06-2021 01:34 PM #24Player
- Join Date
- Feb 2015
- Location
- Limsa Lominsa
- Posts
- 299
- Character
- Severa Nanase
- World
- Jenova
- Main Class
- Sage Lv 90
Didn't they mention on a live letter once before that they're planning on doing bigger changes but have to wait until 6.0? Regardless, I don't really care at this point about losing greased lightning. It feels like it plays almost identical anyway, minus building stacks in your opener and spamming formshift. Monk had way too many "save Greased Lightning" moves, now that it's gone we might get abilities that actually change how monk feels. I really hope it does because monk in 2.x didn't feel all that different from 3/4/5 aside from the later half of 4.x.
(2)
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02-06-2021 10:48 PM #25Player
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
- Posts
- 302
- Character
- Viese Blanchimont
- World
- Ultros
- Main Class
- Pugilist Lv 80
Monk always felt a like a class they never knew what to do with it and Greased Lightning probably is one of the best examples of that. Tornado Kick ate up your GL, which made it worthless in most cases. Riddle of Earth required you to be hit for it to trigger the GL reset. Anatman required you to stand still. Riddle of Fire slowed you down to a crawl and was contrast to the fact that GL was about going fast. Six Sided Star kind of did the same.
(1)
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02-08-2021 08:26 AM #26Player
- Join Date
- Jan 2018
- Posts
- 936
- Character
- Lihtleita Lonstyrmwyn
- World
- Lich
- Main Class
- Marauder Lv 100
Honestly would love a pruning of skills for monk, while adding back some of what we've lost since hw. The fist stances need to go in general, even when we were encouraged to use them, switching stances mid fight was pretty clunky.
And as much as i like the newer chakra based animations (elixir field, enlightenment), they look really dumb when you turn effects off.
I'd like a return to the more pugilistic version of monk, the simple days of just punching a man in the face.(0)
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02-08-2021 04:07 PM #27Player
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
- Location
- Ul'Dah
- Posts
- 2,105
- Character
- Antony Gabbiani
- World
- Faerie
- Main Class
- Viper Lv 100
Now that we're a ways out from the changes.... I'm not sure I have faith in them to know what to do to build up on the job now that the GL timer isn't an issue.
They extended the duration of greased lightning (I tried to find the exact patch this happened, but couldn't. Believe it was one of the Stormblood patches that added 2 seconds to its duration)
So if the short timer on greased lightning was making it hard to build up the job, they could have changed how long the buff lasts any time they wanted. Now it's gone and what few skills still stuck around to maintain buffs are just there now to maintain twin snakes.
I'll be thrilled to be proven wrong in this regard... but I'm just not sure that I have faith they have a plan on how to really bring this job forward in the same ways they did with ninja and dragoon.(2)
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02-08-2021 04:48 PM #28Player
- Join Date
- Feb 2020
- Posts
- 676
- Character
- Seiko Hanamura
- World
- Kujata
- Main Class
- Black Mage Lv 100
It's tricky, but it can be done. There are a plethora of theorycrafted ideas and kits done for the sake of expanding MNK in their own way but I can still very clearly see the concern for obvious reasons. If you told me that SE was going to actually introduce something new to MNK 2-3 years ago I would have believed you. Now? It's hard to give a generous answer to that question because of how poorly they're treating all roles in the game by continuing to ignore the portions of the player-base willing to give criticism and obliterating skill ceilings. Square Enix despite having such a terrible design philosophy to the jobs of Shadowbringers, have proven that they're still capable of making good jobs. Gunbreaker is evidence of that, yes it needs work, but they've still made a solid job with an identity of its own. Well, as unique as you can be for a ShB tank that is.
Originally Posted by wereotter
It's still possible seeing how generally well received the other melee jobs are is what I'm saying, but history has yet to be proven wrong when it comes to MNK.(0)
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02-09-2021 01:36 AM #29Player
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
- Location
- Ul'dah
- Posts
- 708
- Character
- K'ahli K'uhla'tor
- World
- Balmung
- Main Class
- Monk Lv 100
I feel like it says a lot about Monk/ the 5.4 rework that the best anyone had to say about it in 5.4 was "Well it's a good start but it better not be all there is to it" and now about two months removed from the high of the job finally getting any sort of change people are mad at the job for still being janky and severely lacking both in what mechanics it has and how developed what little it has actually is.
(1)Last edited by SpeckledBurd; 02-09-2021 at 01:39 AM.
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02-09-2021 02:36 AM #30Player
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
- Posts
- 844
- Character
- Sqwall Lionheart
- World
- Diabolos
- Main Class
- Warrior Lv 100
I enjoy MNK now and find myself quite often during phase shifts spamming form shift. Hard habit to break, and even harder to use SSS when as a free sprint to get out of AOE and shoulder tackle back in.
Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd
Do I wish I had new skills that aren't from 2.0. i.e. Dragon kick, twin snakes, etc. Sure. Do I wish I had new animations. Most definitely. But what I wished more then anything is to play this job with less frustration. GL was my frustration and it permeated over the years, and the focus of skills helping me to quell my frustrations? Yuck! The additions made to keep my stacks up was quite literally adding to my frustrations. I didn't want more ways to keep up a horrible mechanic, I wanted growth and progression. Adding another stack of GL just seemed "meh".
The one thing I am most happy about is I am no longer under pressure to keep GL up. I now have time to strategize and formulate, without this fear of losing my stacks. And that monk is now just passively "fast" by design. No build up, no maintenance, no disengage clunky ness, no spamming, no more frustrations. Just fast, unhindered high crit melee speed. Just a monk being a monk.
Monk opener is simple enough now, what with Tornado Kick being OGCD and unshackled from GL. Burst phase is self explanatory now and doesn't require to much effort to squeeze inside the time limit now that it's charges with a large grace period.
Chackra isn't RNG anymore persay, but still need to rely on crit chance to generate a chackra. At least it's 100% chance now, and your guaranteed a charge every bootshine, which is great.
Brotherhood is now helpful in pushing your Forbidden or Enlightenment damage. I find AOE on the Monk to be the most effective out of ANY class, just due to it's crazy fast GCD and high crit chance. Double Monk on dungeon runs MELT large packs of mobs.
After 2 months I have mellowed out with monk and no longer find it frustrating to play. It's very chill and fun to play. I choose to play monk when farming Bozja CE's, castrum, Deleabrum, grinding out memories for my relic, running CT, Void Ark, RCoR for haunting memories.
I'm excited to see what Endwalker will bring for monk. It can only get better imo since GL has been axed and we aren't going back to it.(1)Last edited by Sqwall; 02-09-2021 at 02:44 AM.
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