Lamia NN: Repeated Harassments by One Player

[ICountFrom0]

the "low quality" probably isn't the troll, the mentor alt they use tends to be hidden, either off on another server, or by not talking ever...

Keep track of the other 2 though... and try having a nice private talk with the other mentor, maybe show them to the forum and this topic.

[UncannyThreat]

That mentor that kicks you, well, he claims it's his girlfriend, but it's pretty sure just another set of bots that just happened to jump through the mentor hoops, notice that most of the time it's an account that has never said anything the entire time?

10000% this guy doesn't have a girlfriend. i have written down all the mentors that have kicked me after spam kicking him one was from another world server that left instantly after kicking me, another one is just one of those low quality mentors i was talking about and then ya the latest one is the one im assuming he said was his GF. tbh i might just start kicking those people on sight too.

Lets put aside the fact that you are engaging in targeted harassment and openly admitting it here in the official forums, but on what basis do you make these claims, both of you?

[localareanetwork]

I kick this guy from the NN on sight, even if he wasnt a total toxic troll with his words, his usernames are bad enough to warrant kicks... Sadly it usually ends up with another mentor kicking me. tbh i think im almost done with this nonsense id rather just pay the money and go play on another server whos NN isnt a total cesspool. This guys bad but i can deal with him by kicking him on sight, But Lamia honestly has some of the lowest quality mentors i've ever seen sad really.

Oh hey, you're that coward that kicked me randomly and then left novice network before you could be confronted about it. So your post on "low quality mentors" is ironic and I agree you should leave Lamia.

[Ars_Magna]

I kick this guy from the NN on sight, even if he wasnt a total toxic troll with his words, his usernames are bad enough to warrant kicks... Sadly it usually ends up with another mentor kicking me. tbh i think im almost done with this nonsense id rather just pay the money and go play on another server whos NN isnt a total cesspool. This guys bad but i can deal with him by kicking him on sight, But Lamia honestly has some of the lowest quality mentors i've ever seen sad really.

"Lamia honestly has some of the lowest quality mentors i've ever seen"
Ironic, coming from you. You have next to nothing whatsoever to offer to sprouts as a mentor. You have barely even played the game. You have no jobs leveled, and only a narrow range of experience with the game itself. You are completely unqualified to mentor anyone in this game. The only thing you've done with the crown is to kick people, and in your paranoia you have been kicking more than just your target's supposed alts, you've kicked randoms more than once. You need to chill out.

There are some really good folks around the Lamia Novice Network, but frankly you get in the way every time you appear. The instant you arrive, everyone's experience becomes worse, immediately. You are not supposed to be there to act solely as a mini-moderator, you are supposed to be there to help sprouts and participate in the community.

I've seen you post on Reddit in similar ways, I think you really just need to distance yourself from this game for a while, I don't think you will feel better by just transferring worlds, though I think it would help with Lamia's situation in the Novice Network. Your attitude is so bad it got you permanently banned from League of Legends. I pray that it does not come to that here, as well.

[Nogchamp]

Heyo peeps, I have been paying attention to this thread since its creation and decided to get involved with the discussion due to the fact that the thread is old and alot as occured since then with the sprouts, mentors, and GMs alike. Back when this begun to become a large issue with the involved individuals that continued to repeat the same offence in Lamia's NN, a group of myself and other mentors (that wanted to help keep the said chat clean, helpful and more chill in regards to new players) created an open linkshell in order to remedy most of those issues. At first it was a bumpy situation due to who we should allow in it to help and just decided to let it be open for all communication even with said mentors that were new and did not understand how the system worked for reports, kicks, and properly showing new players the ropes without pressuring them. As the linkshell grew to almost max, at this point we had a regular system and reported each kick as is required with Tos to help better the server. Obviously this came with its own set of problems were mentors were 50/50 on how they wanted things due to personal bias or just not wanting to get involved out of fairness and refused to take part in helping per how the GMs and Tos insists for ingame etiquette. Eventually after many reports and issued kicks from the said individual this sums it up.

1. Individual was misunderstood but also dug themselves a hole due to reacting constantly and letting there personal bias create a stigma against them from past personal issues with players on Lamia. Also not knowing what should and shouldnt be talked about in NN even after the recent Tos Revisement.
2. It has created a situation amongst some of the mentors in NN and Lamia in general to make a scapegoat to flex there power or create a couple alts here and there to keep the fire burning in NN, even after the individual has been removed and kicked.

Eventually after discussions with GMs over many months -_- the situation was resolved and things were subtle for only 1 month in NN over a 4 year period of this continuing until the individual decided to come back on another account and start anew. At first it was just fine and the individual was staying calm in NN and helping new players with the occasional IRL topic that stayed Civil for the time being, After sometime more old players and returners that didnt understand the situation began stirring the pot by adding drama and calling the player out by who they were known for in NN from past issues etc.

[Nogchamp]

This led to the recurring issue again with said individual taking it personal and continued discussing non-civil and uncomfortable topics while the mentors and other trolls in chat, adding to the fire until a kick was warranted. Every time a kick is issued a report is sent in with GMs and it is recommended to follow up with them as well with another report to discuss the issue. GMs over this past year have constantly went back and forth on what mentors should do in terms of using our best judgment in a situation ingame. The following example shown below is one of these.

1. Follow-up on if kick evasion is a warranted reason to kick or remove a player from novice network was given permission by GMs at one point to some mentors, if the said player admitted to being the same player that was just kicked "but only" if they were still persisting with the same said topic or discussion that originally issued a (kick/report) will the kick be warranted again.

Due to the constant influx of new, returning, and old mentors coming and going in NN. the situation seems to never improve either from confusion of the situation, not caring enough to reach out to a GM for clarification "but saying they did" or taking the words of some GMs the wrong way and making up there own conclusion, which ultimately leads to a mentor in NN kicking on sight or powertripping. Regardless of the situation Lamia is considered one of the best servers still on Primal due to its helpfulness with many of the amazing mentors that want to really get involved. Sadly some of the more "salted" mentors or players on our world i should say like to cause drama and watch the chat burn for there own entertainment than actually wanting to help moderate and create a better chat environment, while also calling out amazing and helpful mentors for "taking the game to serious" or "caring to much". On that note, i have brought this situation to Reddit in the past not long ago to only be met with personal bias and flaming when most of us want the system changed overall come EW for the better. Being involved with this situation on my part as a long time player that has mentored others over the past since 3.2 when mentors were introduced, has made it difficult to resolve because of being a content creator for FF14 while also running my own discord community alongside our FC family Ingame, has made me a target for alot of poor individuals Ingame that im forced to ignore and BL. The situation with mentors at the moment is in a very fragile position due to very little GM involvement in NN and has been discussed amongst not only myself with other streamers but by many in the community that want it changed to help better the toxicity that arises consistently. Being told to BL and let them handle a problem ingame has had provided little to NO changes especially over this past year.

[Verthande]

10000% this guy doesn't have a girlfriend. i have written down all the mentors that have kicked me after spam kicking him one was from another world server that left instantly after kicking me, another one is just one of those low quality mentors i was talking about and then ya the latest one is the one im assuming he said was his GF. tbh i might just start kicking those people on sight too.

This is an example of just one of the many mentors that players have taken issue with on Lamia. This person is openly admitting to kicking people on-sight just because they feel slighted and has offered no reason for their kicks besides, what amounts to, that they don't like the person.

I'll list a few of the issues that I'd had since I came back on a new character in April (retired my old one who was, believe it or not, the second ever Mentor on Lamia.)

1. Someone was having a discussion about something and mentioned something about a scientific theory and a scientific Law as being the same thing and as being an interchangeable term. I spoke up and politely (I have the screenshots) interjected that a theory is prescriptive and hasn't been proven but a Law is descriptive and is repeatable using the Scientific Method. A mentor (not the one I'm replying to) proceeded to call me stupid, uneducated, and encouraged no less than four other players to dogpile on me before culminating in them kicking me for "nuisance behavior." I reported them and came back into chat again 30 minutes later and asked them what I did wrong and I was told that I "must be autistic or something" if I was "still butthurt" about that and received another dogpile before another kick for "nuisance behavior." I had reported and came back another 30 minutes later and before I could even say anything (someone must've set a timer or something,) I was kicked again without a single word.

[Verthande]

2. Sprout A and sprout B were having a discussion about a topic and sprout A said something about the Trans Community and sprout C admitted that they were Trans and would appreciate them not speaking for them as what they were saying didn't represent their views and experience. Sprout A went OFF on sprout C and was claiming that C was just trying to start drama so C posted a picture of their hormone meds. A outright said to C that they still didn't believe them and that they were "just claiming to be trans to start s___." At this point, myself and several other sprouts were speaking up in defense of C and asking for any mentor (many of which had just mysteriously gone silent even though they were talking just minutes before) to do something about sprout A. I was one of the people that was speaking up and asking for A to stop...a mentor kicked me for "drama and nuisance behavior." No one else got kicked...sprout A didn't get kicked. 30 minutes later, I came back and was immediately kicked without a word for "starts drama and past nuisance behavior." 30 minutes later...kicked again immediately upon entering NN and without a word from anyone. THE NEXT DAY my FC leader pulls me aside and said that people have messaged them about me starting drama in the NN and it looks bad for the FC. I explained to them the situation and even offered to show them the screenshots...nope...I was told that I either have to stop starting and participating in drama in the NN or I had to leave the FC. This event caused my S/O to basically quit the game in literal tears and I have to BEG them to play with me and they only do maybe once or twice a month and never for longer than an hour.

3. People were having an argument when I'd logged on. Someone on my friendlist saw me log in and said, "oh hey ____," in NN to welcome me online for the day. I responded, "Hello there," and was immediately kicked by a mentor for, "causing drama and past nuisance behavior." I was kicked 30 minutes later when I came back to the NN and asked, "Hey, why was I kicked?" Other people spoke up and also asked and said I didn't do anything but instead of an apology or even a response...I was kicked again for "attempting to start drama and past nuisance behavior." 30 minutes later...guess what happened, again.

There have been MANY other instances like this but I'll stop and move on to the other issue.

[Verthande]

To the individual in question with the original post...while I do think that they occasionally cross the line and do deserve a kick every now and again, I have to emphatically state that the vast majority of the kicks that this person receives are the results of people riling them up specifically because they know that they can get a rise out of them. Most of the time, in NN, people are just talking about them and how much they don't like them. After they get kicked, whether they do deserve it or not, for the next two hours (no joke) the entirety of the NN just talks about how much they hate (yes hate) this person and what they can do to get rid of them for good.

Again, I fully expect to have to kick this person in the future when they cross the line talking about their views or whatever when asked to stop...but the problem, right now, is almost entirely projection from the bad-actors that wield their mentor crown like they've been ordained as mini-gm's.

My own opinion, having been a GM for NCsoft years ago and knowing what GMs have to put up with, the reason this person hasn't been just outright banned is because the GMs have realized that this problem isn't just on this one person's shoulders and that there is immense amounts of guilt on the other side of the narrative, as well, and they can't just go banning everyone because then there would eventually be no players left.

Whatever this person has done in the past, my own viewpoint, is that the blame for the current situation that we find ourselves in is about 10% on them and 90% on these other toxic mentors that literally have an organized harassment campaign (complete with lists of his characters that they randomly PM to random sprouts and tell them to immediately place on their blacklist and, yes, I have evidence of them doing this as they messaged me with it) against this player...who, honestly, has been playing MAYBE a few hours a week, if that, lately.

Is this player a problem? Sure, at times and maybe they need one or two of their names changed every now and then because edgelord. They do, however, realize when they deserve a kick for having crossed the line and the main and current problem comes from the indignancy they show from being harassed and dogpiled even just for trying to help others and then receiving so many kicks that are unwarranted.

Again...I'm not condoning any of this player's actions...but, if anyone is ruining my daily game time, it's definitely not them and it hasn't been for many months.

[Nogchamp]

Whatever this person has done in the past, my own viewpoint, is that the blame for the current situation that we find ourselves in is about 10% on them and 90% on these other toxic mentors that literally have an organized harassment campaign (complete with lists of his characters that they randomly PM to random sprouts and tell them to immediately place on their blacklist and, yes, I have evidence of them doing this as they messaged me with it) against this player...who, honestly, has been playing MAYBE a few hours a week, if that, lately.

Is this player a problem? Sure, at times and maybe they need one or two of their names changed every now and then because edgelord. They do, however, realize when they deserve a kick for having crossed the line and the main and current problem comes from the indignancy they show from being harassed and dogpiled even just for trying to help others and then receiving so many kicks that are unwarranted.

Again...I'm not condoning any of this player's actions...but, if anyone is ruining my daily game time, it's definitely not them and it hasn't been for many months.

Exactly and sadly most of the Mentors that choose to campaign against said individual end up either leaving the Mentor LS all because they take it on a personal level instead of looking at NN as a status quo and just kick/report when there's an actual reason to do so. It has seriously showed just how 50/50 the mentor players base when it comes to investigating a problem instead of using there own personal bias all because "its there sub" -_-. They really need to take the mentor system in account for things of how a person uses it to help/moderate Ingame like it was originally intended for. I only hope they actually read the forums like they say