Remove Gender-Lock From Gear / Glamour Please

[Schwarzstahl]

well ... depends.
i would like to see more gender locks on obvious items, also there are enough items that make no sense to lock.

[Karious]

Why is the approach outdated?

[Halivel]

Alternating pants into skirts is sitting on an outdated tradition (unless it's 1960s or something on your calendar, when my grandma was forbidden from wearing pants - then it's not outdated for you, I guess). There's literally no sense behind this. If they want to put these skirts in game so much - they should release them as separate items and give ladies their pants. You could say there are enough, but why not having more? Having more pants with more skirts separate is a win-win, not a loss.

As for everything else - we don't live in some cave era (and maybe it would have been better if we did tbh, because folks back then likely didn't care about "gender roles" which is a social construct). Sticking to something "boys should wear..." and "girls should wear" is weird at best and should go into oblivion already, it has no practical use in society other than forbidding somebody from doing something what isn't even remotely harmful. There are dresses and skirts that are designed with men types of figure in mind already (though a lot of them look more weird than stylish, but that's a matter of personal taste. Somebody likely does like them).

Usually it's exactly the media that starts changes in things such as wearing clothes. It so happens that modern media, not in a small portion, is games, and they do give a beginning for new norms just as they represent old ones, much like every other media. I doubt people will ever think it's okay to walk around in a bikini -30C area (though some Russian traditions can... argue this, in a sense), but game is pretty much able to teach players that people should be allowed to wear what they want and how they want without being shamed for it, even if in somebody's eyes it looks ridiculous.

Also if anything, even with recent "moral code" in mind, no one stops you from wearing a piece of cloth irl that "isn't created for your gender". You may be shamed or laughed for it, but there's no any hardware limitation in your brain that stops you from doing so. And likewise it shouldn't be a thing in game either. There's obviously such a thing as "resources aren't limitless" but then again - people don't ask them to remove every single gender-lock right away. They ask to consider it and keep in mind for future designs, with addressing old items when it's possible.

[Karious]

Gender roles are a social construct? Don't these roles exist in nature? Hell, even in caveman times, males would go hunt and the females would raise the young. Lions form prides, which are social groups and adhere to their gender roles. I'm not sure I follow.

In many nations outside of the United States, people are still shamed for wearing whatever they want, and in some nations, those people are killed if they do not adhere to gender clothing standards. I'm all for freedom of expression, but expecting that it's the norm the world over and that everyone should just accept it or they're ignorant is just silly.

I'd love more pants for women, just as I'd love more dresses. I would also love to see more manly men outfits for the guys. And if enough people wanted more dresses and skirts for the boys too, I wouldn't complain.

I just feel there's a lot of speaking for people around the world without considering their feelings in this thread.

[artypartytime]

Gender roles exist in nature but are vastly different among different species. In a lot of species the male is more fabulous than female.

Alternatively gender roles exist mostly for survival.
Men hunt or protect usually because they are bigger.

As survival based of strength becomes less of a concern gender roles begin to change.
Notibly lionesses who don’t need a man to protect them from most predators become hunters.

Same for humans as we enter into a more intellectual phase in human history “big man strong” isn’t as valuable as a person who knows how to use their brains well.
So it’s no surprise that gender roles are breaking down because they are no longer Necessary.

Now as humans you can chose to maintain old gender roles if they work for you or abandon them completely. Both options are for the individual to chose and neither is right or wrong.

So! You can chose to wear the outfit that speaks to your gender or you can chose not to care about that at all and wear whatever you feel like.

Both options are present both options are valid

[Halivel]

And every specie a social structure, although a very different one from what we experience ourselves. Even lions. That said, we don't live in times when men were hunting and women were gathering crops and raising the young. We don't live in times when women weren't even allowed to read, let alone work, either. Society changes, and given this I don't get why some people are so stuck on "but it's not a tradition". By "tradition" I should be having 9th kid by now without ever being allowed to get a proper education because I would be a mere incubator in the eyes of "traditional society".

I live in such a country. You can be beaten up to death for something as harmless as dying your hair blue, and it's not a figure of speech - we had such cases registered and talked about in news. I still stand on my point: people should be allowed to wear what they want without being shamed for it nor anything else. EPSECIALLY because I'm from a place where it's still not the case and I want it to change, like many other who is affected by this <kupo!>. Media, games included, is not a main factor in process, but it's a part of it and a good one because it's much less dangerous, shifting the norm slowly without actual real-life threat.

[artypartytime]

Gender roles exist in nature but are vastly different among different species. In a lot of species the male is more fabulous than female.

Alternatively gender roles exist mostly for survival.
Men hunt or protect usually because they are bigger.

As survival based of strength becomes less of a concern gender roles begin to change.
Notibly lionesses who don’t need a man to protect them from most predators become hunters.

Same for humans as we enter into a more intellectual phase in human history “big man strong” isn’t as valuable as a person who knows how to use their brains well.
So it’s no surprise that gender roles are breaking down because they are no longer Necessary.

Now as humans you can chose to maintain old gender roles if they work for you or abandon them completely. Both options are for the individual to chose and neither is right or wrong.

So! You can chose to wear the outfit that speaks to your gender or you can chose not to care about that at all and wear whatever you feel like.

Both options are present both options are valid

[MilkieTea]

Gender roles exist in nature but are vastly different among different species. In a lot of species the male is more fabulous than female.

Alternatively gender roles exist mostly for survival.
Men hunt or protect usually because they are bigger.

As survival based of strength becomes less of a concern gender roles begin to change.
Notibly lionesses who don’t need a man to protect them from most predators become hunters.

Same for humans as we enter into a more intellectual phase in human history “big man strong” isn’t as valuable as a person who knows how to use their brains well.
So it’s no surprise that gender roles are breaking down because they are no longer Necessary.

Now as humans you can chose to maintain old gender roles if they work for you or abandon them completely. Both options are for the individual to chose and neither is right or wrong.

So! You can chose to wear the outfit that speaks to your gender or you can chose not to care about that at all and wear whatever you feel like.

Both options are present both options are valid

this. gender roles while they exist in nature do not exist as WE have made them. we've decided that, arbitrarily, pink is for girls, blue is for boys. we've decided, arbitrarily, that girls wear skirts, and boys wear pants. what we DIDN'T decide is that amabs have different muscle structure, and thus were the hunters of most societies. what we DID decide, is that big man stronk so big man lEaD.

hell, the decision of men wearing pants is so recent that most of human history, both amabs and afabs were wearing robes, dresses, skirts. it's only the last 600-ish years that we've began to shift towards a weird dichotomy of men do this and women do that, and even then that has shifted over history - ie men used to wear heels, men wore makeup and wigs, men wore flamboyant clothes.

(also you posted twice @artypartytime ahah)

[Penthea]

Gender roles are a social construct? Don't these roles exist in nature?

Some gender roles are essential for survival depending on your circumstances. We as humans have outgrown the needs of rigid gender roles due to how we live now being so vastly different to long ago. If anything our current state of society needs these gendered roles to be abolished wherever possible to be able to meet the needs of modern society. A lot of industries suffer because of sexism. They're depriving themselves of talented and useful people because of gender bias that no longer makes sense to uphold.

This thread is purely about virtual clothing. I hope I don't need to explain that it has no relation to using gender roles to survive as a species.

It makes no sense to gender lock gear because there is no real benefit to it. It forces SE to often design two versions of a set of gear which is more work for them, and it frustrates many players who prefer gear that is not useable by their character solely because of gender. Never mind how SE gain less money by only allowing some characters to access certain appearance options. Certainly for me SE have gotten less money from me because there are mog station gear sets I would adore to have on my character but I can't unless I change the gender of my character, which I have no intention of doing.

[Packetdancer]

I'd much rather have more gender locked clothing with an emphasis on specialized clothing for each gender, rather than a generic androgyne style that fits both like we presently are getting with hairstyles.

Fine, but then can we maybe not keep making 85-90% of all female clothing a dress or miniskirt, whenever we have gender-locked designs? Some ladies like to look good in a suit or vest, or wear a 'badass longcoat' like various fictional heroes. And I have lost track of the number of times the guys get a really awesome duster or jacket or dapper vest, and the women get another frilly dress. The Valentiones' event last year gave me a great deal of sadness.

*clings forever to the blessedly-unisex YoRHa Type-53 Coat of Fending*