Why doesn't pve have pvp combo structure?

[HotPixels]

You are about the 1000th person to ask this. And every time it gets answered with the same thing.... STOP TRYING TO MAKE FFXIV SO DUMBED DOWN ITS A ONE BUTTON GAME! It’s bad enough SE guts jobs every expansion, it’s bad enough jobs like mch which was once the most complex and a lot of fun Is now considered the easiest. It’s time to make the game a bit more complex not less.

I'm not sure what makes you think pressing 123 is more complex than pressing 1, 3 times lol.

[Myon88]

I'm not sure what makes you think pressing 123 is more complex than pressing 1, 3 times lol.

I've always been a little curious about this sentiment when people suggest combo consolidation too. If you're comfortable with the jobs you play, and familiar with a keyboard, pressing 3 different buttons is a negligible increase in difficulty from pressing one button 3 times. This post you're reading now was typed as naturally as breathing, without even thinking about it, and I hit probably 30 different buttons in the process of doing so. If anything, consolidating them makes things harder as it's more difficult to discern what step of a combo you're on, and you lose the option to break a combo on purpose.

But really, I just find it funny when someone says pressing '111' is the last straw that makes a job too easy, as if '123' wasn't just as easy. I don't have any particular love for autocombos for the above reasons, but could it be that they're equally trivial, and you're just fooling yourself into thinking you're doing more work with the latter?

If anything, that the bulk of job rotations can be condensed into one button in the first place is the root of the issue. The real solution is not to distract yourself from that fact with a busywork input method, but to design jobs with more complexity, with rotations that have real degrees of nuance and randomness. That would be more difficult of course, but it's the real answer to the problem.

[Tint]

But really, I just find it funny when someone says pressing '111' is the last straw that makes a job too easy, as if '123' wasn't just as easy. I don't have any particular love for autocombos for the above reasons, but could it be that they're equally trivial, and you're just fooling yourself into thinking you're doing more work with the latter?

Healers don't seem to be that happy with their 111 rotation o.ô

However, condensed combos as an option would be nice for the people who want to use them. I would like to have them for Dragoon. But at the same time I have placed the combo for my Dark Knight 3 times on my PvP bar to use it like the 123 combo in PvE.

[Dogempire]

Just a personal anecdote, but when I play Red Mage and Gunbreaker I have my melee/Gnashing Fang combo tied to shift 5-7 because those are the only only spots I have room to fit them without putting them at a super awkward keybind like ctrl 8-0. Having those combos tied to 1 button would make things a lot less annoying for me because I wouldn't miss the key combos on accident occasionally while dodging mechanics and it would free up more space for extra skills.

Having those combos be 3 buttons doesn't make the job any harder, it just makes it more annoying to play comfortably for people like me who prefer to keep my main skills easily hittable but can't because certain jobs have too many main skills to bind.

[Seraphor]

Just a personal anecdote, but when I play Red Mage and Gunbreaker I have my melee/Gnashing Fang combo tied to shift 5-7 because those are the only only spots I have room to fit them without putting them at a super awkward keybind like ctrl 8-0. Having those combos tied to 1 button would make things a lot less annoying for me because I wouldn't miss the key combos on accident occasionally while dodging mechanics and it would free up more space for extra skills.

Having those combos be 3 buttons doesn't make the job any harder, it just makes it more annoying to play comfortably for people like me who prefer to keep my main skills easily hittable but can't because certain jobs have too many main skills to bind.

GNB already has a consolidated combo on one button, Continuation.
Fact that people always overlook this just shows that consolidating a combo into one button does just reduce it to merely one button, and negates the fact that it's a combo.

I don't want every job to end up like a healers Glare/Broil/Malefic spam.

[Dogempire]

GNB already has a consolidated combo on one button, Continuation.
Fact that people always overlook this just shows that consolidating a combo into one button does just reduce it to merely one button, and negates the fact that it's a combo.

I don't want every job to end up like a healers Glare/Broil/Malefic spam.

And yet every expansion we end up losing skills and getting some back because people want new expansion skills, but we're simply at the limit of how many skills we should have.

Maybe if they could actually consolidate the amount of keybinds we have instead of outright deleting skills, we could finally have an expansion that actually builds on the job we played last expansion instead of one where half our skills magically disappear overnight.

Or they could just delete the entire Gnashing fang combo to make room for some new Endwalker gimmick for the Gunbreaker job, which is probably what's going to actually happen if they don't consolidate anything.

[Seraphor]

And yet every expansion we end up losing skills and getting some back because people want new expansion skills, but we're simply at the limit of how many skills we should have.

Maybe if they could actually consolidate the amount of keybinds we have instead of outright deleting skills, we could finally have an expansion that actually builds on the job we played last expansion instead of one where half our skills magically disappear overnight.

Or they could just delete the entire Gnashing fang combo to make room for some new Endwalker gimmick for the Gunbreaker job, which is probably what's going to actually happen if they don't consolidate anything.

There's definitely room for button consolidation, but simply turning every combo into one button isn't the best way to do this. Many jobs have skills that are mutually exclusive, you can't use one while the other is available, or some skills simply become redundant in the presence of others.

BLM: Combine Ley Lines and Between the Lines. Have B2 upgrade into Freeze and F2 upgrade into Flare.
NIN: Combine Dream within a Dream and Assassinate.
SAM: Combine Meditation and Shoha. Upgrade Shinten into Seigan when under Merciful Eyes.
DRG: Combine Fang and Claw with Wheeling Thrust. Delete Piercing Talon.
PLD: Combine Requiescat with Confiteor. Combine the effects of Intervention and Cover, or simply buff one and remove the other.
GNB: Probably would make the Gnashing Fang combo here a 1 button combo, the same as Continuation. So that you simply alternate between the two just like MCH's burst phase.

There, that's all of the worst offenders in terms of button bloat out of the way. The only other jobs with 'too many' buttons are SMN which already does all of this sort of thing with it's Bahamut and Phoenix skills, and BRD, but that already only has 2 combo skills and I'm not familiar enough with it's endgame rotation to know what else to realistically be axed.

I definitely wouldn't combine the combos for the melee jobs into single buttons. Mainly because their combos is what their entire rotation is based around. You remove those and they're reduced to 3 button jobs.
SAM and MNK both have skills that simply wouldn't work with this sort of consolidation, because they unlock the ability to use combo skills out of order.
DRG has 2 very long combos, get rid of those and it has 2 spamming combo buttons and Jump.
Lastly, NIN, has a heavy burst rotation. It already spends half of its time simply hitting the 1-2-3 combo waiting for mudras and Trick Attack to come off cooldown, and it only has 4 of those combo skills to consolidate anyway. Combining them wouldn't achieve much and would make it more boring.

[Achantion]

There's definitely room for button consolidation, but simply turning every combo into one button isn't the best way to do this. Many jobs have skills that are mutually exclusive, you can't use one while the other is available, or some skills simply become redundant in the presence of others.

That is the real issue, not button merging.

BLM: Combine Ley Lines and Between the Lines. Have B2 upgrade into Freeze and F2 upgrade into Flare.
NIN: Combine Dream within a Dream and Assassinate.
SAM: Combine Meditation and Shoha. Upgrade Shinten into Seigan when under Merciful Eyes.
DRG: Combine Fang and Claw with Wheeling Thrust. Delete Piercing Talon.
PLD: Combine Requiescat with Confiteor. Combine the effects of Intervention and Cover, or simply buff one and remove the other.
GNB: Probably would make the Gnashing Fang combo here a 1 button combo, the same as Continuation. So that you simply alternate between the two just like MCH's burst phase.

Most of these are perfect examples of what I'm aiming at. Make a button have a mechanic.

Yet, these are generally all things you do in between your basic combo's. I would love to see the same mind set applied to more varied basic ability design. Make certain combo's reactive, require a pre-requisite, lower damage but faster GCD (and visa versa), etc.. Button consolidation wouldn't be an issue with more varied ability design.

I'm going to stress again that button removal isn't the goal. For each button removed a new one should come in it's place, but, 1-2-3 combo's are just an artificial way to pad the number of buttons a job has access too.

Sure some classes in their current design might need a tiny redesign, but as NIN's Shadow Fang has proven, there are easy cop-outs to achieve this.

[Deceptus]

There's definitely room for button consolidation, but simply turning every combo into one button isn't the best way to do this. Many jobs have skills that are mutually exclusive, you can't use one while the other is available, or some skills simply become redundant in the presence of others.

BLM: Combine Ley Lines and Between the Lines. Have B2 upgrade into Freeze and F2 upgrade into Flare.
NIN: Combine Dream within a Dream and Assassinate.
SAM: Combine Meditation and Shoha. Upgrade Shinten into Seigan when under Merciful Eyes.
DRG: Combine Fang and Claw with Wheeling Thrust. Delete Piercing Talon.
PLD: Combine Requiescat with Confiteor. Combine the effects of Intervention and Cover, or simply buff one and remove the other.
GNB: Probably would make the Gnashing Fang combo here a 1 button combo, the same as Continuation. So that you simply alternate between the two just like MCH's burst phase.

SMN:
- Combine Enkindle (Pet ability) and Enkindle (Demi Primal) - These two abilities can't be used at the same time.
- Combine Dreadwyrm Trance with Summon Bahamut. Can't use Bahamut without using DT first. DT already turns into Phoenix after Bahamut anyway.
WHM:
- Trait that upgrades Cure 1 into Cure 2 and adjust MP accordingly (500-750 range)
- Trait that upgrades Fluid Aura into Assize and change Assize name to Flood. FA is useless as it is, and low level CNJ / WHM mana regen sucks. Give FA an 8% mana gain on use.
- Trait that upgrades Medica into Cure 3 and simply extend the range on Cure 3. Silly both exist. Or call it medica 3 for the eventual Cure 3 that is going to have to be made later.

Do you really want DRG to be 1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-2-2-2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-2-2-2-2 with occasional Jumps?[/I]

Dragoon is probably the worst example you can use against button bloat and they always have been. There is literally zero functional difference between 123-4 / 567-8 vs 1111 / 2222 other than the amount of buttons that requires it. One requires 8 slots and one requires 2.