Why doesn't pve have pvp combo structure?

[Payadopa]

While pressing 123 vs 111 might not make some huge difference in "complexity"(although it certainly does some), the main thing is how it affects "engagement" - which is what actually matters 100% of the time when it comes to game design. When people ask for things to be more complex, it's not really about some stupid bragging rights and ego of "playing a harder thing" - it's about the difficulty providing a challenge and thus more engagement. Sometimes things can in fact be more engaging without being considerably harder, just like some difficulty might occasionally not be engaging but only annoying.

To be fair, I see where you're coming from.
I remember hating playing with a keyboard since pressing 1 2 3 isn't gaming for me (or using a keyboard at all). It feels like data entry.

I gave the console version a try and it [felt] like night and day so I gave it another shot and ended up tolerating the combat way more. So, I guess I agree? lol

I just don't want to see more skills being removed. Unkess it's one of these absolutely boring abilities you press like once every 30 seconds and that do damage and that's it. No positionals, no HP requirement (like for PLD) etc. These can get replaced.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Erm, and that is an argument against my point... how?

It was actually an attempt to support your point and focus where the problem actually lies. Suddenly spamming the same button you are already pushing regularly is not very engaging unless there is something that makes it feel different.

With the example of DRK, right now Bloodspiller button is pressed about 6 times per minute while each of the combo buttons is pressed a little over 6 times per minute. That means a consolidated "Souleater Combo" button would be pressed over three times as much as Bloodspiller is right now and with way shorter breaks in between. If somebody's already sick of mashing BS, they'd be far more sick of mashing this new "combo button".

One of the biggest problems with DRK is that it only has 4 single target weaponskills. The 3 of the weaponskills are a single combo while the remaining weaponskill is both a gaugespender and spam button. If the only effect of combo compression was going from 1-2-3-1-2-3-4 to 1-1-1-1-1-1-2 that would be bad design.

Good design would do something like adding Scourge back in as a 15 second non-interrupting DoT and an alternative combo ender that applies or extends a Haste buff (i.e. a combined Skill Speed+Spell Speed buff) in addition to combo compression. 1-1-1-2-1-1-3-4-1-1-3-2-1-1-1-4 is much more engaging than 1-2-3-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-1-2-3-4 even though it uses the exact same number of buttons.

Even in case of jobs with branching combos, most would still end up spamming quite a lot, just with one or two other gcd buttons to press(also 2-3 times in a row) every now and then for the buff/dot upkeep - which is not much unlike how WHM will occasionally press Dia or one of their afflatus GCDs or how SCH will use Biolysis and Ruin II.

Many games use single button progressive combos (often with branches) and they do not come off as boring mostly due to steps of the single button combo having visual differences. A fair amount of the complaints about Glare spam would likely quite down if it rotated through the visuals of Stone 3, Stone 4 and Glare.

The intention doesn't matter in the slightest - all that's relevant is the actual result and its conclusion, which is that many people don't enjoy spending majority of the fight spamming one gcd button over and over.

Actually it is fairly important, you don't actually fix a flawed design by focusing solely on the resulting effects. You compare the intended effects and the resulting effects and look for the causes of the effects you do not desire.

[AnAverageAspie]

Can they at least do it with the Continuation gunbreaker combo? I know it's to weave a 1 second cooldown with the gcd skills but why not make the gnashing fang combo pieces 1 second cool downs? And stack the continuation actions/10 second buff on top of the actions so you press each button twice? So it removes one skill. It's hard enough weaving other skills like Bow Stock, Sonic Break in it without accidentally skipping continuation.

I used to place my gap closer on CH(cross hotbar) 1 LX(left side X) but with Gunbreakers Continuation combo being so important I had to move gap closers on all tanks in CH 2 LX

[Dogempire]

I honestly don't think it would be so bad if they consolidated combo actions, but made it optional and also made it so that we have the same number of skills at 80 now as we do in 6.0, while also adding some new ones.

I'm not going to hold my breath though since every expansion we seem to magically lose a lot of skills only to gain some back but have some lost forever.

[HotPixels]

You are about the 1000th person to ask this. And every time it gets answered with the same thing.... STOP TRYING TO MAKE FFXIV SO DUMBED DOWN ITS A ONE BUTTON GAME! It’s bad enough SE guts jobs every expansion, it’s bad enough jobs like mch which was once the most complex and a lot of fun Is now considered the easiest. It’s time to make the game a bit more complex not less.

I'm not sure what makes you think pressing 123 is more complex than pressing 1, 3 times lol.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I'm now confused about the thread calling for more button reduction..

actually sometimes you people here confuse me. You want one thing and then you don't want that thing. x_x;;

It's almost like there is more than one person posting what they'd like to see in FFXIV.

**snippity snip** ... but honestly you want one button combos you can setup a macro in the game. in facto you can almost do a complete rotation with the macro system on certain jobs.

This the best response to the original post. If you want to have your combos on one button, make a macro. If you don't know how, ask. I'll be happy to help you!

I'm not sure what makes you think pressing 123 is more complex than pressing 1, 3 times lol.

I don't think it's a question of complexity. An individual can push either rotation just as easily.

In my mind, it's a matter of how engaging it is to push one three times versus one, two, three. I'd argue that pushing one, two, three holds my interest more. I'm moving my finger from one button to another while keeping track of which ability I should be pushing the button for next.

Meanwhile, pushing one button repeatedly becomes tedious because there is little finger movement, no ability tracking, and no decision making.

[SpiralMask]

You are about the 1000th person to ask this. And every time it gets answered with the same thing.... STOP TRYING TO MAKE FFXIV SO DUMBED DOWN ITS A ONE BUTTON GAME! It’s bad enough SE guts jobs every expansion, it’s bad enough jobs like mch which was once the most complex and a lot of fun Is now considered the easiest. It’s time to make the game a bit more complex not less.

SE guts jobs every expansion because they've hit the soft 'button limit' on controller support, but have to keep adding more skills to sell the class in the upcoming expansion. so they prune down the class to make room for this and spread their skills and passive thinner and thinner every time.

...which could be alleviated by condensing down some actions (perhaps as an optional setting in a menu somewhere like hotbar/WXHB settings, rather than forcing it on everyone) into things like autocombos (standard 123 loops and aoe combos), toggles (dreadwyrm trance -> deathflare -> DWT, etc), or any other possible means, since (optionally) reducing the buttons-to-press number would allow them to add more skills without needing to remove others every 2 years.

folks on keyboard+mouse don't need those settings since there's more than enough hotbar space for anything and everything but who knows, some folks might benefit from it too.

[HyoMinPark]

folks on keyboard+mouse don't need those settings since there's more than enough hotbar space for anything and everything but who knows, some folks might benefit from it too.

Controllers have 8 cross hotbars of 16 buttons each. That’s effectively 128 button spaces for actions and shortcuts. Most jobs can fix everything comfortably onto 2 crossbars—both easily accessible via the L2+R2 / R2+L2 expanded crossbar with no cycling through the bars required. There’s only one or two that reach that 32-button cap (PLD and GNB come to mind). This isn’t even counting the additional 16 that the W crossbar adds. While the W cross could be a bit more responsive, implying that controller users are the ones hurting for hotbar space is incorrect. I’ve played this game on controller for over 5 years and never struggled with hotbar space.

It’s also possible for controller users to keybind actions to regular crossbars to either click or access via keyboard. I play on PC and use a hybrid setup of controller and keybinds. Excess buttons that aren’t used that often I have bound to my numpad to free up actions that are used more often (e.g., healer and tank LBs are on there; role actions such as Head Graze that have a 1 fight per tier use). All key shortcuts and gear set shortcuts are also set to regular hotbars (which I simply click to swap between). This is possible to do on console by buying a cheap Bluetooth keyboard and/or mouse, and does not require an extremely expensive setup. You can also just use the DualShock touchpad to touch gearsets, though it’s not as quick.

Some jobs that were pruned going into ShB never had issues with hotbar real estate. The developers outright mentioned that some skills were removed simply because of difficulties in upkeep or to close the skill gap between less skilled players and more skilled players. Some skills were removed due to overpoweredness (AST Time Dilation and Royal Road come to mind), due to job changes (other AST card skills such as Spread), and just general reworks to jobs at a basic level (TP-restore Tactician; tank aggro combos). Some skills could absolutely be removed and/or upgraded through traits—but I don’t think everything needs consolidation.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Controllers have 8 cross hotbars of 16 buttons each. That’s effectively 128 button spaces for actions and shortcuts. Most jobs can fix everything comfortably onto 2 crossbars—both easily accessible via the L2+R2 / R2+L2 expanded crossbar with no cycling through the bars required. There’s only one or two that reach that 32-button cap (PLD and GNB come to mind). This isn’t even counting the additional 16 that the W crossbar adds. While the W cross could be a bit more responsive, implying that controller users are the ones hurting for hotbar space is incorrect. I’ve played this game on controller for over 5 years and never struggled with hotbar space.

It’s also possible for controller users to keybind actions to regular crossbars to either click or access via keyboard. I play on PC and use a hybrid setup of controller and keybinds. Excess buttons that aren’t used that often I have bound to my numpad to free up actions that are used more often (e.g., healer and tank LBs are on there; role actions such as Head Graze that have a 1 fight per tier use). All key shortcuts and gear set shortcuts are also set to regular hotbars (which I simply click to swap between). This is possible to do on console by buying a cheap Bluetooth keyboard and/or mouse, and does not require an extremely expensive setup. You can also just use the DualShock touchpad to touch gearsets, though it’s not as quick.

Some jobs that were pruned going into ShB never had issues with hotbar real estate. The developers outright mentioned that some skills were removed simply because of difficulties in upkeep or to close the skill gap between less skilled players and more skilled players. Some skills were removed due to overpoweredness (AST Time Dilation and Royal Road come to mind), due to job changes (other AST card skills such as Spread), and just general reworks to jobs at a basic level (TP-restore Tactician; tank aggro combos). Some skills could absolutely be removed and/or upgraded through traits—but I don’t think everything needs consolidation.

128 button spaces? Holy crow that's a lot of buttons!

[Jirah]

PVP kits are simplified versions of PVE so it makes sense to strip away a few layers and mechs

As for the topic, it would be weirdly specific on which jobs get it since most rotations arent a simple 1-2-3 no job has that much of a mundane rotation (besides MCH), DRG need to branch out for disembowel and chaos, Ninja with there Huton extention in armor break, MNK is all over the place, SAM would be entirely pointless as its too fluid. This would only benefit GNB rotations, MCH rotation, mayybe DNC which is only 1 button, RDM physical finisher and most of the aoes.