Why doesn't pve have pvp combo structure?

[ItMe]

Knowing you have exactly 4GCD's until an add dies or invulnerability phase starts up is something that will rarely, if ever, happen, but I guess that is one use for breaking combos if you're trying to extreme min/max something.

Huh... maybe I've just been farming the same raids too much if I have the timing down this tight : P

There's no reason that throwing the basic combo buttons onto different keybinds couldn't still be an option; but 99.99999% of the time I'd still want them consolidated, though.

Options are good.
And as long as SQEX is clever about how they make it work with combo trees so as not to inhibit them, I really don't see how this option is bad yo.

(Also, sorry, I didnt see you respond so I was still editing my original comment when you quoted me. Doesn't really change anything but... whoops)

[Goji1639]

Huh... maybe I've just been farming the same raids too much if I have the timing down this tight : P

lol, if you want to scrutinize a fight to that degree I'm sure you can/have, but most people won't and it's NEVER necessary. I'm sure having the option to do it is fun for some people, though, and I don't really want to take that away from them.

[spf1200]

having to press diferent buttons for 1 or multiple combos add the risk you fat fingered or you hit the wrong/same key making you break you combo and probably mess with your rotation a bit depending of what job are you playing, having everything in 1 buttom you literally remove that factor and it's simplification since it literally makes the player reduce the amount of diferent buttons they need to use to execute they rotations so yes it makes the game easier.

I think I'm done with the thread...

[LittleImp]

Huh... maybe I've just been farming the same raids too much if I have the timing down this tight : P

Don't worry, most high-end players take phase timings and kill times into account, and it's particularly important on paladin with how they're able to branch their combo and manipulate their GCD.

A lot of people in this thread are just kind of posturing and talking about things they don't actually have knowledge about.

[Dogempire]

Pressing separate buttons adds an additional layer of execution the game sorely needs. Most content is already braindead scripted, imagine having to do it while only pressing one button over and over again. People already rejected the changes to healer that have you doing just that.

We might as well put one button on DDR mats or guitar hero controllers at this rate.

Next people will be asking "why cant we just automate the game?".

Honestly, good point, some jobs are already boring enough, and if they're going to shift skills to only be on one button they better give us something else to occupy our attention in its place

[Dogempire]

Players have tried to macro their rotation for a loooooong time.
Part of me feels like this 111 idea is a compromise of sorts, but ultimately I find this topic interesting because of the discussion it's hovering around: which is more valuable, executing a more complicated rotation or executing more complicated mechanics.

Considering that SE has wanted healers to do more healing and less damage, and the only places where this philosophy actually applies is in savage/ultimates, I don't really trust SE with trying to give us more complicated mechanics.

Maybe I'm just becoming cynical at this point but any time SE tries to simplify something it usually just ends up making the job more boring and sacrifices job identity for making it accessible to anyone, which is nice for new players but for people who have been playing for years it just results in less interesting and less varied gameplay.

[Theodric]

I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of abilities being merged into the same button. Aside from hopefully helping players perform their rotations better, it leaves room for some interesting abilities to be added in place of the 'lost' button presses.

[HyoMinPark]

Knowing you have exactly 4GCD's until a mob dies or invulnerability phase starts up is something that will rarely, if ever, happen, but I guess that is one use for breaking combos if you're trying to extreme min/max something.

This is incorrect. When one does a fight enough on a specific job, they learn exactly how many GCDs they can get away with before a boss jumps—or how to time their attacks to maximize uptime. Even people that don’t do “extreme min/max”. For example, in UCoB, I know exactly when I can get away with using Heavy Shot, and when I need to Iron Jaws refresh my DoTs before a Trio so that they are still there when Bahamut returns. And I am far from min-maxing BRD these days. Likewise with DNC in E12S: I know how many GCDs I can get in before the boss goes truly untargetable during Advanced Relativity. This is just something perceptive players pick up naturally the more they do a fight.

[SaberMaxwell]

Knowing you have exactly 4GCD's until a mob dies or invulnerability phase starts up is something that will rarely, if ever, happen, but I guess that is one use for breaking combos if you're trying to extreme min/max something.

There's no reason that throwing the basic combo buttons onto different keybinds couldn't still be an option; but 99.99999% of the time I'd still want them consolidated, though.

What he's describing and what you're saying never happens is called 'optimization' and lots of people do it, consciously or no.

My $0.02 is I don't trust SE to replace what we got with something better, so I'm going to stick with the devil I know.

[Goji1639]

This is incorrect. When one does a fight enough on a specific job, they learn exactly how many GCDs they can get away with before a boss jumps—or how to time their attacks to maximize uptime. Even people that don’t do “extreme min/max”. For example, in UCoB, I know exactly when I can get away with using Heavy Shot, and when I need to Iron Jaws refresh my DoTs before a Trio so that they are still there when Bahamut returns. And I am far from min-maxing BRD these days. Likewise with DNC in E12S: I know how many GCDs I can get in before the boss goes truly untargetable during Advanced Relativity. This is just something perceptive players pick up naturally the more they do a fight.

Alright, so in how many fights exactly do you end up at the first step of your basic combo exactly 4GCDs before an invuln phase or an add phase? I wasn't saying that optimization was something that rarely happens; I was saying the specific example provided rarely happens.

Even if that actually does happen a lot, it's literally 1 tick of the PLD's incredibly weak DoT you're gaining... Who cares? I get that these kinds of optimizations are fun for some people, and I'm not really looking to take them away. The reality is, however, they're not a compelling argument against button consolidation.

Regardless, the answer to this talking point was already provided in this thread. Make consolidation an option.

Edit: Now that I think about it, the example given likely isn't even a DPS gain. With 4GCDs to use it's 1212 then 3 on the add to get the dot up immediately, as opposed to 1231 then 2 and 3 to get the dot up on the add 1 GCD later. First off, 1231 is more damage than 1212. Second off, the combo modifier on 2 is probably worth more than the extra tick of 3 you're losing.