Why doesn't pve have pvp combo structure?

[Goji1639]

So if I see the target is about to disappear (add about to die, boss about to become untargetable, w/e), and know I have 4 GCDs left, I can go 1212...[thing disappears, new target appears]...3 instead of 1231...23 and taking an extra GCD to DoT the target.

Or for War you can do the opposite and break your combo to end on 3 to refresh your buff before downtime.

It's not supah deep, it doesn't make or break your parse to any notable degree, but there are reasons to break your combo. I'm sure I could think up examples for other classes, but I don't play many at a high level lol.

Knowing you have exactly 4GCD's until a mob dies or invulnerability phase starts up is something that will rarely, if ever, happen, but I guess that is one use for breaking combos if you're trying to extreme min/max something.

There's no reason that throwing the basic combo buttons onto different keybinds couldn't still be an option; but 99.99999% of the time I'd still want them consolidated, though.

[ItMe]

Knowing you have exactly 4GCD's until an add dies or invulnerability phase starts up is something that will rarely, if ever, happen, but I guess that is one use for breaking combos if you're trying to extreme min/max something.

Huh... maybe I've just been farming the same raids too much if I have the timing down this tight : P

There's no reason that throwing the basic combo buttons onto different keybinds couldn't still be an option; but 99.99999% of the time I'd still want them consolidated, though.

Options are good.
And as long as SQEX is clever about how they make it work with combo trees so as not to inhibit them, I really don't see how this option is bad yo.

(Also, sorry, I didnt see you respond so I was still editing my original comment when you quoted me. Doesn't really change anything but... whoops)

[Goji1639]

Huh... maybe I've just been farming the same raids too much if I have the timing down this tight : P

lol, if you want to scrutinize a fight to that degree I'm sure you can/have, but most people won't and it's NEVER necessary. I'm sure having the option to do it is fun for some people, though, and I don't really want to take that away from them.

[LittleImp]

Huh... maybe I've just been farming the same raids too much if I have the timing down this tight : P

Don't worry, most high-end players take phase timings and kill times into account, and it's particularly important on paladin with how they're able to branch their combo and manipulate their GCD.

A lot of people in this thread are just kind of posturing and talking about things they don't actually have knowledge about.

[Rilifane]

Don't worry, most high-end players take phase timings and kill times into account, and it's particularly important on paladin with how they're able to branch their combo and manipulate their GCD.

A lot of people in this thread are just kind of posturing and talking about things they don't actually have knowledge about.

For almost 9 pages almost everyone who was against this idea only wrote that pressing 1-2-3 instead of 1-1-1 is so much more difficult and that removing that will make every class horribly dumbed down. And people responded that no, pressing 1-2-3 instead of 1-1-1 is, in fact, not so much more difficult.
Leaving the option to assign them seperately is a nice idea but the chances are unlikely that SE will add more interesting skills.

Given that they would add more interesting skills, it would most likely be a choice between
1) keeping it as it is and some classes will have a few times thoughout a whole fight where they have to use their combo in an unusual order
2) having another interesting mechanic/ skill for the whole fight

I'd wager that if they consolidated combos and added another interesting skill/ mechanic, you'll have even more fun optimizing that for a whole fight. Skill pruning will happen but many would rather see skills pruned/ consolidated that add very little for 99% of the fight and make room for skills that do instead of keeping everything as it is and risk losing more interesting skills because the basic 1-2-3 can't be touched.
You brought up a good argument with phase transitions but it seems you have yet to understand the other side of the argument.

[ForteNightshade]

I'd wager that if they consolidated combos and added another interesting skill/ mechanic, you'll have even more fun optimizing that for a whole fight. Skill pruning will happen but many would rather see skills pruned/ consolidated that add very little for 99% of the fight and make room for skills that do instead of keeping everything as it is and risk losing more interesting skills because the basic 1-2-3 can't be touched.
You brought up a good argument with phase transitions but it seems you have yet to understand the other side of the argument.

Based on...? Because the past two expansions have shown precisely the opposite. For ease of comparison, lets simplify both sides. People in favor of combo consolidation are essentially expecting/wanting a return to job complexity similar to Heavensward Dark Knight. Conversely, those of us on the opposing side have no belief whatsoever the devs will do anything of the sort and their big reveal will be more akin to "Inner Release Mastery" where now you spam five Inner Beasts! So creativity, OH EMM GEE!!

Jesting aside, I certainly can't speak for everyone but I'd be far more willing to embrace combo consolidation if SE actually went in the former direction, or even took a step further. How often do you see tanks wanting additional combos? Give Dragoon a third combo or have Vorpal Thrust weave into Full Thrust for a new effect. In other words, give us some meaningful engagement if we're going to lose the, admittedly, minute amount we have. A primarily complaint with Bard this expansion is despite having roughly the same rotation, the job feels completely gutted. Iron Jaws buff snapshotting and Foe's were ultimately something you didn't interact with often but enough to give the job a unique feel that no longer exists. That isn't to say combos are on the same level, but to highlight how small things can have a bigger impact.

Perhaps I'm too jaded with how simplified Shadowbringers made everything. I just do not believe we'll see much innovation with job design despite all this new hotbar space.

I support the idea. While mostly everyone in this thread is against it because it "Dumbs Down" the game and makes it a one button spam they fail to realize that SE could have taken this route with combo actions and kept other actions/skills instead of getting rid of them. So while it takes 3 skills and condenses them into a 1 button combo skill it'll make more room for various other skills that SE could have kept on the Job/Class or add new ones.

They could also, you know, remove the myriad of useless abilities that still remain. Repelling Shot, Piercing Talon, Fluid Aura, Seigan Fist stances, Shield Bash and etc. Some abilities were removed simply because they were "too hard," like Heavy Thrust and Straight Shot. Simply put, many skills pruned weren't necessarily due to space but to make the jobs more simplified. Therefore, they were always going to be targeted regardless of compressed combos. Meanwhile, we still have several abilities so useless, they don't even make it on most hotbars. In fact, Cure I may stand as the best example; being dubbed the "newbie trap" because of how inefficient it is. So we have plenty of skills they can drop without touching any of the ones we actually use.

[HyoMinPark]

Knowing you have exactly 4GCD's until a mob dies or invulnerability phase starts up is something that will rarely, if ever, happen, but I guess that is one use for breaking combos if you're trying to extreme min/max something.

This is incorrect. When one does a fight enough on a specific job, they learn exactly how many GCDs they can get away with before a boss jumps—or how to time their attacks to maximize uptime. Even people that don’t do “extreme min/max”. For example, in UCoB, I know exactly when I can get away with using Heavy Shot, and when I need to Iron Jaws refresh my DoTs before a Trio so that they are still there when Bahamut returns. And I am far from min-maxing BRD these days. Likewise with DNC in E12S: I know how many GCDs I can get in before the boss goes truly untargetable during Advanced Relativity. This is just something perceptive players pick up naturally the more they do a fight.

[Goji1639]

This is incorrect. When one does a fight enough on a specific job, they learn exactly how many GCDs they can get away with before a boss jumps—or how to time their attacks to maximize uptime. Even people that don’t do “extreme min/max”. For example, in UCoB, I know exactly when I can get away with using Heavy Shot, and when I need to Iron Jaws refresh my DoTs before a Trio so that they are still there when Bahamut returns. And I am far from min-maxing BRD these days. Likewise with DNC in E12S: I know how many GCDs I can get in before the boss goes truly untargetable during Advanced Relativity. This is just something perceptive players pick up naturally the more they do a fight.

Alright, so in how many fights exactly do you end up at the first step of your basic combo exactly 4GCDs before an invuln phase or an add phase? I wasn't saying that optimization was something that rarely happens; I was saying the specific example provided rarely happens.

Even if that actually does happen a lot, it's literally 1 tick of the PLD's incredibly weak DoT you're gaining... Who cares? I get that these kinds of optimizations are fun for some people, and I'm not really looking to take them away. The reality is, however, they're not a compelling argument against button consolidation.

Regardless, the answer to this talking point was already provided in this thread. Make consolidation an option.

Edit: Now that I think about it, the example given likely isn't even a DPS gain. With 4GCDs to use it's 1212 then 3 on the add to get the dot up immediately, as opposed to 1231 then 2 and 3 to get the dot up on the add 1 GCD later. First off, 1231 is more damage than 1212. Second off, the combo modifier on 2 is probably worth more than the extra tick of 3 you're losing.