Why doesn't pve have pvp combo structure?

[Kuroka]

>Implying hitting 1-2-3 instead of 1-1-1 is somehow making the rotation more complex when any remotely half-decent player will have the button presses on absolute muscle memory and not ever have to pay attention, never breaking or failing a combo outside of niche fringe cases.

The fact is, Square wants to keep each rotation's kit within a certain number of buttons. When it grows beyond that number, they start pruning stuff, which is why job gutting happens.

This, so much.

Sure there are moments where you'd break a combo or use a single skill for whatever reason - but in the end we still could just keep the single buttons as well AND use combo buttons.

I can only repeat, id rather have 2-3 more combos, maybe with more ogc moves weaved into them (where again we could have one like SAM's move where its dependent on the number of sen) OR even make an ogc combo that weaves between a normal one, making 6 actions from 2 buttons.

Rather condense a combo then CUT it. As Daeriion Said, they WILL cut moves again, now and on 7.0 and so on... heck if we use combo buttons we could also use skills for glamour so not everyone uses the same moves, while still doing the same dps. ...yes i miss DK's old moves lol. (and BLU shows they can let us select our skillsets)

(also i gotta say Daeriion, I always confuse you with myself on first sight as our faces look so alike XD)

[ForteNightshade]

I can only repeat, id rather have 2-3 more combos, maybe with more ogc moves weaved into them

Based on how job design has reduced complexity and simplified nearly every job from Stormblood onward. Do you actually believe that will happen? As HyoMinPark said, they removed buff management like Straight Shot and Heavy Thrust because casual players weren't maintaining them. What makes you think they'll go from dumbing everything down for the most casual of players to the precise opposite, where now we're expected to have four combos and several additional oGCDs. Keep in mind, they have never added more than five new traits, weaponskills and/or abilities. So your expectations are literally them changing their entire direction. Don't get me wrong, I would love more branched and varied combos like say, Vorpal Thrust into Full Thrust has a new effect. I'd also have to be extremely optimistic to expect them to ever do something as nuanced.

The far likelier probability is Dragoon's new hotbars look similar to the Range: a barren wasteland.

[Kuroka]

Based on how job design has reduced complexity and simplified nearly every job from Stormblood onward. Do you actually believe that will happen?

No, not really, but i hope for it. And I still stick with, rather have 2-3 more combos that ppl might not use then remove whats there. Maybe a one button combo is enough "dumbed down" so we can at least have more of them...

In the end they gonna move more skills around and cut some so we end up having like 2 skills till lv 30 and then 4 till 50 and then 1-2 at max more per expansion, which would suck whenever we get synched down..

IF ppl would not resist that much against the combo buttons id see a better chance for less dull gameplay then with "we cut off your combo, add some new trait, add another skills and maybe a ogc that triggers from it"


Also i wanna point out, the number of skills doesnt equal the amounts of hotbars one needs. If youre fine with switching you hotbars around all the time, fine, but i got several skills i need to place more then once to manage using em and im sure im not the only one...

[ForteNightshade]

No, not really, but i hope for it. And I still stick with, rather have 2-3 more combos that ppl might not use then remove whats there. Maybe a one button combo is enough "dumbed down" so we can at least have more of them...

In the end they gonna move more skills around and cut some so we end up having like 2 skills till lv 30 and then 4 till 50 and then 1-2 at max more per expansion, which would suck whenever we get synched down..

IF ppl would not resist that much against the combo buttons id see a better chance for less dull gameplay then with "we cut off your combo, add some new trait, add another skills and maybe a ogc that triggers from it"


Also i wanna point out, the number of skills doesnt equal the amounts of hotbars one needs. If youre fine with switching you hotbars around all the time, fine, but i got several skills i need to place more then once to manage using em and im sure im not the only one...

See, I don't like this argument because it puts all on the onus on the playerbase and not the dev team. People are resistant to combo consolidation because the dev team hasn't been especially innovative, thus we're concerned jobs like Dragoon will suddenly have massive free hotbar space that never gets used. I also don't particularly find pressing an oGCD every 90-120s any more interesting than 1-2-3 vs 1-1-1. The onus needs to be on SE to sell their change. Like I said, I'm open to reducing the combos to a single button if I've given something else to engage with.

As for needing to place the same ability on your hotbar more than once. That's what macros are for. I don't think reducing Dragoon down to two hotbars worth of skills just so you can fit four Dragon Sight macros is a good use of said space.

[Ultimatecalibur]

People are resistant to combo consolidation because the dev team hasn't been especially innovative, thus we're concerned jobs like Dragoon will suddenly have massive free hotbar space that never gets used.

A fair amount of resistance is the result of confusing method (1 button progressive combos) with objective (getting PvP buttons down to about 16). They hear 1 button combos and their minds immediately go to the gutted rotations of PvP without realizing that the culled actions rather than the 1 button combos are why the PvP kits feel gutted compared to the PvE kits.

The onus needs to be on SE to sell their change. Like I said, I'm open to reducing the combos to a single button if I've given something else to engage with.

Which is what I think a lot of the supporters are actually hoping for. For example, my hoped changes for the 6.0 Paladin with combo compression would be something like this:

• Rage of Halone/Royal Authority combo compressed down to 1 button from 3 (Goring Blade stays as its own button and an alternative finisher for the combo)
• Shield Lob getting a 3 stage ranged combo that generates Sword Oath stacks
• Total Eclipse and Prominence turned to a 1 button combo that also generates Sword Oath
• An AoE Sword Oath weaponskill that inflicts a 12s version of the Goring Blade DoT
• A ranged Sword Oath weaponskill that would extend the Goring Blade DoT
• Another independent action that can be on or off the gcd

In effect the Paladin would get 5 new actions without losing any existing actions. This would all be possible by compressing 6 buttons down to 3 and turning an existing button into a 3 part combo.

[Goji1639]

See, I don't like this argument because it puts all on the onus on the playerbase and not the dev team. People are resistant to combo consolidation because the dev team hasn't been especially innovative, thus we're concerned jobs like Dragoon will suddenly have massive free hotbar space that never gets used. I also don't particularly find pressing an oGCD every 90-120s any more interesting than 1-2-3 vs 1-1-1. The onus needs to be on SE to sell their change. Like I said, I'm open to reducing the combos to a single button if I've given something else to engage with.

As for needing to place the same ability on your hotbar more than once. That's what macros are for. I don't think reducing Dragoon down to two hotbars worth of skills just so you can fit four Dragon Sight macros is a good use of said space.

This I don't completely understand. You say yourself than 1-2-3 is really no more engaging or deep than 1-1-1, so what's the value in taking up that extra hotbar space? It would be nice if SE used that extra space to flesh classes out more, but even if they didn't we're not actually losing anything by consolidating these simple combos.

I play on m&kb, use a programmable mouse and even I would appreciate freeing up some of my most efficient binds. It annoys me that they're wasted on something that could/should be consolidated.