Why doesn't pve have pvp combo structure?

[MsQi]

I think machinist and Dark Knight are the only ones I can think of with a straight A->B->C combo, I haven't even maxed them out yet. Doing something like this would imply that you are supposed to keep those going all the time which is not the case. Everything has actions you need to weave in and there are time to ignore that combo for a time.

You can add complexity while still having fewer main combo buttons. You named a job that did this before. MCH has always had it's 3-part combo since it's conception yet you said it used to be complex so this means the main 3 part combo didn't add to it's complexity. So they could consolidate the combo into one button and then give us two more buttons in their place. (Also could you tell me when it was complex I don't recall it ever being but its been years)

The "3 button combo" was chance based. I'm not sure if it was based on crit or just random, but the next ability in the series was not always available immediately after previous. Also you could have one of 2 turrets (one for single target and one for AoE) that were placed manually. May not have been more buttons, but clearly required more attention.

Everyone lost role actions.

[AncientWillow]

Honestly I see y not when its basicly like that already .. the thing is like it or not pve is already brainless just with more keys involved.. the combo thing wouldn't change a thing just save some hotbar space for future unquie ability sets.

Either way it wouldn't change anything pve is already brainless outside mechincs and that has nothing to do with our abilitys.

If you think pve is not brainless already your naive as hell.

The combo is always the same you either follow it or you suck honestly.. this is true with everyjob.. outside healers who may have to throw in a heal outside their set pattern.

Ffxiv combo combat jobs is brainless as hell. Because they want it to be designed that way. Compared to xi it rlly is.. you follow
pattern or you suck period. You use mechincs to say its not but at the end of the day your combo an d ability pattern is always the same. Stop being naive loo

[Ayuhra]

I don't know about reducing to PvP levels but PvE rotations absolutely need a reduction in button bloat.

I think the best place to start is putting abilities that are mutually exclusive on the same button.

Like...Why does a Black Mage have Fire IV and Blizzard IV on separate buttons when it is literally impossible to use one in any situation where you can use the other?

Why, for Summoners, is Enkindle Bahamut/Whatever on a separate button from Summon Bahamut/Whatever when you obviously cannot enkindle what isn't summoned?

Things like that. Same number of abilities, fewer buttons.

[MsQi]

Every job's actions can fit on 3 bars.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

You are about the 1000th person to ask this. And every time it gets answered with the same thing.... STOP TRYING TO MAKE FFXIV SO DUMBED DOWN ITS A ONE BUTTON GAME!

>Implying hitting 1-2-3 instead of 1-1-1 is somehow making the rotation more complex when any remotely half-decent player will have the button presses on absolute muscle memory and not ever have to pay attention, never breaking or failing a combo outside of niche fringe cases.

The fact is, Square wants to keep each rotation's kit within a certain number of buttons. When it grows beyond that number, they start pruning stuff, which is why job gutting happens. Combo condensing is an extremely smart move as it frees up 2-4 button spaces for each job so that way they don't have to prune the actually fun and rotation enhancing abilities & OGCDs. Condense combos, condense abilities that are mutually exclusive from each other (Gnashing Fang -> Savage Claw -> Wild talon can be all one button like Continuation since you can never use Savage claw without using Gnashing fang, you can't accidentally whiff the combo like normal ones, etc. freeing up 2 buttons for zero cost as an example.) and maybe we'll get more interesting rotations. Because you know what'll happen when they add new abilities in 6.0 and they don't condense combos? they'll just prune one of your OGCDs instead that actually add fun to your rotation instead.

[ForteNightshade]

While I have generally been against combo consolidation, I could possibly come around to it if that meant more robust and interesting new abilities. Conversely, if it simply led to a job like Dragoon losing losing six buttons and they slap on a new oGCD you press every 60s. It will feel hollow and dumbed down. At least it will, imo. That isn't to say pressing 1-2-3- is any harder or more complex. It isn't. That doesn't mean spamming a single button the vast majority of your time playing combat related content doesn't feel boring. Ask the myriad of healers complaining about it.

It simply boils down to what do they actually use that new hotbar real estate for.

[van_arn]

After thinking about this, I'd like to see a limited version of this implemented. For the jobs that have multiple chains (drg/sam/nin off the top of my head) it would be nice to have a button for each chain, rather than twice or three times as many buttons to smash.

On keyboard this isn't quite as big of a concern, but on gamepad being able to do the basic chains with the face buttons means you don't need to remove your thumb from the movement joystick or chord into hotbar 2/3 mid-series. It's actually a very nice little QOL change that reduces button bloat.

On SAM, this would change generating 3 sen from:
RB 123 RB+LB 123 RB 14

to

RB 111 222 33

Nothing would really change rotation-wise, you'd have to pay attention to the specific step you're in for the chain, and you'd still need to go for the chains in the right order to maintain your buffs. It's just less swapping between pages for the same skills. Your ogcd usage also remain unchanged.

[HyoMinPark]

After the way jobs lost complexity going from Stormblood into Shadowbringers—and the developers’ obsessions with dumbing things down and making everything simpler—I wouldn’t expect them to actually come up with engaging battle systems/oGCDs to go alongside combo consolidation. They couldn’t stand for healers to have more than one DoT or thought buffs like Heavy Thrust or Straight Shot were “too hard” to manage, so I have no faith they would actually give us anything interesting with this new hotbar real estate (which some jobs are already barebones in terms of buttons anyways...). Hard no on making it forced onto the general playerbase—I would likely quit the game in its entirety because I did not like the change in PvP. I’d rather not it forced upon me in the PvE mode that I have always primarily played.

The reason it exists in PvP is because the developers said that they wanted players to focus on the strategy of PvP environments rather than a rotation.

EDIT: I know there’s no difference between 1-2-3 and 1-1-1 in terms of complexity—but for me, it all boils down to me actually hitting different buttons instead of just spamming the same one. Makes it feel less boring and more mentally engaging. But that’s just my opinion. Wanted to add this because I thought it deserved mention, but forgot to put it in the original post.

[Aniya_Estlihn]

I would only be okay with this if it were optional and remained that way forever. Under no circumstances should it be made the standard.
Even still, Yoshida has said he doesn't want this for PvE, so it's doubtful we'll even see an option to do so outside of PvP.

[Kuroka]

>Implying hitting 1-2-3 instead of 1-1-1 is somehow making the rotation more complex when any remotely half-decent player will have the button presses on absolute muscle memory and not ever have to pay attention, never breaking or failing a combo outside of niche fringe cases.

The fact is, Square wants to keep each rotation's kit within a certain number of buttons. When it grows beyond that number, they start pruning stuff, which is why job gutting happens.

This, so much.

Sure there are moments where you'd break a combo or use a single skill for whatever reason - but in the end we still could just keep the single buttons as well AND use combo buttons.

I can only repeat, id rather have 2-3 more combos, maybe with more ogc moves weaved into them (where again we could have one like SAM's move where its dependent on the number of sen) OR even make an ogc combo that weaves between a normal one, making 6 actions from 2 buttons.

Rather condense a combo then CUT it. As Daeriion Said, they WILL cut moves again, now and on 7.0 and so on... heck if we use combo buttons we could also use skills for glamour so not everyone uses the same moves, while still doing the same dps. ...yes i miss DK's old moves lol. (and BLU shows they can let us select our skillsets)

(also i gotta say Daeriion, I always confuse you with myself on first sight as our faces look so alike XD)