Why doesn't pve have pvp combo structure?

[Wyakin]

You are about the 1000th person to ask this. And every time it gets answered with the same thing.... STOP TRYING TO MAKE FFXIV SO DUMBED DOWN ITS A ONE BUTTON GAME! It’s bad enough SE guts jobs every expansion, it’s bad enough jobs like mch which was once the most complex and a lot of fun Is now considered the easiest. It’s time to make the game a bit more complex not less.

[Jin-]

You are about the 1000th person to ask this. And every time it gets answered with the same thing.... STOP TRYING TO MAKE FFXIV SO DUMBED DOWN ITS A ONE BUTTON GAME! It’s bad enough SE guts jobs every expansion, it’s bad enough jobs like mch which was once the most complex and a lot of fun Is now considered the easiest. It’s time to make the game a bit more complex not less.

Umm? If they did this then we would have more room for new abilities lol. Not before.

[Satarn]

Umm? If they did this then we would have more room for new abilities lol. Not before.

Yeah, they'd definitely use that opportunity to add a ton of unique, interesting new skills, just like they did with all that newly opened hotbar space in 5.0 MCH- oh wait.

[Anvaire]

Yeah, they'd definitely use that opportunity to add a ton of unique, interesting new skills, just like they did with all that newly opened hotbar space in 5.0 MCH- oh wait.

TBF I don't think you can judge Job design by 5.0. They changed design direction in 5.0 and I personally think the reason jobs seem easier after rework as they have adjusted them with future additions to the job in mind. I think though that compressing multiple actions to one button is only really good when You have kit that precludes the use of other things, an example would be summoner. Where you cannot use Ankh Morn, Revelation or Enkindle depending on what phase you are in, therefore it makes sense to compress the buttons into 1. I think for a base combo, as others have said, having them compressed into a base button instills a rigid play style that does not allow you to bend the rotation to the fight. For the most part this is fine, but in Savage, Ultimates and extremes too much rigidity will literally make an optimum play of these classes difficult and clunky if not impossible to do without loosing a lot of combos / GCD. That said, there are ways they could do this in part by compressing the combo finisher into one button as most combos start with the same initial, then have a branching second and a finisher dependant on the second. the finisher could easily be the same button proc'd by whichever second combo skill was used. That would save space, but also keep the combos separate, however it also makes it incredibly difficult to break the combo, so the skill floor of the job would be lowered. (Which isnt necessarily a bad thing)

[Goji1639]

You are about the 1000th person to ask this. And every time it gets answered with the same thing.... STOP TRYING TO MAKE FFXIV SO DUMBED DOWN ITS A ONE BUTTON GAME! It’s bad enough SE guts jobs every expansion, it’s bad enough jobs like mch which was once the most complex and a lot of fun Is now considered the easiest. It’s time to make the game a bit more complex not less.

If this is the only reason why they aren't combining them into 1 button, then it's a bad reason. Forcing something that can be done with 1 button into 3 different buttons ONLY for the sake of making it less intuitive is just incompetent design. If you all think that challenge=pointless inconvenience then maybe they should also disable the num pad, and not allow shift/ctrl/alt variants for each button. That would be a pretty effective way to make the game play worse for no real reason.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

You are about the 1000th person to ask this. And every time it gets answered with the same thing.... STOP TRYING TO MAKE FFXIV SO DUMBED DOWN ITS A ONE BUTTON GAME!

>Implying hitting 1-2-3 instead of 1-1-1 is somehow making the rotation more complex when any remotely half-decent player will have the button presses on absolute muscle memory and not ever have to pay attention, never breaking or failing a combo outside of niche fringe cases.

The fact is, Square wants to keep each rotation's kit within a certain number of buttons. When it grows beyond that number, they start pruning stuff, which is why job gutting happens. Combo condensing is an extremely smart move as it frees up 2-4 button spaces for each job so that way they don't have to prune the actually fun and rotation enhancing abilities & OGCDs. Condense combos, condense abilities that are mutually exclusive from each other (Gnashing Fang -> Savage Claw -> Wild talon can be all one button like Continuation since you can never use Savage claw without using Gnashing fang, you can't accidentally whiff the combo like normal ones, etc. freeing up 2 buttons for zero cost as an example.) and maybe we'll get more interesting rotations. Because you know what'll happen when they add new abilities in 6.0 and they don't condense combos? they'll just prune one of your OGCDs instead that actually add fun to your rotation instead.

[Kuroka]

>Implying hitting 1-2-3 instead of 1-1-1 is somehow making the rotation more complex when any remotely half-decent player will have the button presses on absolute muscle memory and not ever have to pay attention, never breaking or failing a combo outside of niche fringe cases.

The fact is, Square wants to keep each rotation's kit within a certain number of buttons. When it grows beyond that number, they start pruning stuff, which is why job gutting happens.

This, so much.

Sure there are moments where you'd break a combo or use a single skill for whatever reason - but in the end we still could just keep the single buttons as well AND use combo buttons.

I can only repeat, id rather have 2-3 more combos, maybe with more ogc moves weaved into them (where again we could have one like SAM's move where its dependent on the number of sen) OR even make an ogc combo that weaves between a normal one, making 6 actions from 2 buttons.

Rather condense a combo then CUT it. As Daeriion Said, they WILL cut moves again, now and on 7.0 and so on... heck if we use combo buttons we could also use skills for glamour so not everyone uses the same moves, while still doing the same dps. ...yes i miss DK's old moves lol. (and BLU shows they can let us select our skillsets)

(also i gotta say Daeriion, I always confuse you with myself on first sight as our faces look so alike XD)

[ForteNightshade]

I can only repeat, id rather have 2-3 more combos, maybe with more ogc moves weaved into them

Based on how job design has reduced complexity and simplified nearly every job from Stormblood onward. Do you actually believe that will happen? As HyoMinPark said, they removed buff management like Straight Shot and Heavy Thrust because casual players weren't maintaining them. What makes you think they'll go from dumbing everything down for the most casual of players to the precise opposite, where now we're expected to have four combos and several additional oGCDs. Keep in mind, they have never added more than five new traits, weaponskills and/or abilities. So your expectations are literally them changing their entire direction. Don't get me wrong, I would love more branched and varied combos like say, Vorpal Thrust into Full Thrust has a new effect. I'd also have to be extremely optimistic to expect them to ever do something as nuanced.

The far likelier probability is Dragoon's new hotbars look similar to the Range: a barren wasteland.

[Kuroka]

Based on how job design has reduced complexity and simplified nearly every job from Stormblood onward. Do you actually believe that will happen?

No, not really, but i hope for it. And I still stick with, rather have 2-3 more combos that ppl might not use then remove whats there. Maybe a one button combo is enough "dumbed down" so we can at least have more of them...

In the end they gonna move more skills around and cut some so we end up having like 2 skills till lv 30 and then 4 till 50 and then 1-2 at max more per expansion, which would suck whenever we get synched down..

IF ppl would not resist that much against the combo buttons id see a better chance for less dull gameplay then with "we cut off your combo, add some new trait, add another skills and maybe a ogc that triggers from it"


Also i wanna point out, the number of skills doesnt equal the amounts of hotbars one needs. If youre fine with switching you hotbars around all the time, fine, but i got several skills i need to place more then once to manage using em and im sure im not the only one...

[ForteNightshade]

No, not really, but i hope for it. And I still stick with, rather have 2-3 more combos that ppl might not use then remove whats there. Maybe a one button combo is enough "dumbed down" so we can at least have more of them...

In the end they gonna move more skills around and cut some so we end up having like 2 skills till lv 30 and then 4 till 50 and then 1-2 at max more per expansion, which would suck whenever we get synched down..

IF ppl would not resist that much against the combo buttons id see a better chance for less dull gameplay then with "we cut off your combo, add some new trait, add another skills and maybe a ogc that triggers from it"


Also i wanna point out, the number of skills doesnt equal the amounts of hotbars one needs. If youre fine with switching you hotbars around all the time, fine, but i got several skills i need to place more then once to manage using em and im sure im not the only one...

See, I don't like this argument because it puts all on the onus on the playerbase and not the dev team. People are resistant to combo consolidation because the dev team hasn't been especially innovative, thus we're concerned jobs like Dragoon will suddenly have massive free hotbar space that never gets used. I also don't particularly find pressing an oGCD every 90-120s any more interesting than 1-2-3 vs 1-1-1. The onus needs to be on SE to sell their change. Like I said, I'm open to reducing the combos to a single button if I've given something else to engage with.

As for needing to place the same ability on your hotbar more than once. That's what macros are for. I don't think reducing Dragoon down to two hotbars worth of skills just so you can fit four Dragon Sight macros is a good use of said space.