Why doesn't pve have pvp combo structure?

[Feronar]

I personally would like 1 2 3 combos removed entirely, or at least have them only on 1 or 2 jobs. I don't like how *every* melee DPS and tank job has them (Machinists have them as well), it's lazy and boring. WoW has 19 tank or melee DPS specs, and as far as I know not a single one relies on 1 2 3 combos.

[Missbone]

Im also not a big fan of the Combo system in this game, no matter if its just the one button solution or not. People complain about a mindless one button smasher. But the truth is that even with 3 keys you repeat the same rotation over and over again, you just need more space. Instead of giving you a choice how to build your rotation and adapting things to your play style its already premade and you only have to follow it and push a few other buttons here and there from time to time (for example interrupt, Def CDs or Ressurect).

Maybe an additional option for players who prefer the pvp interface would be nice, giving you the choice if you want to use the standart version or the compact pvp version for the different actions.

[Fukuro]

I can't imagine how boring this would be. It already is excrutiatingly mundane to press 1-2-3 over and over again. This is becoming a joke at this point. (Especially for me as a DRK).

I don't think PVP is the right template to use here. They should think about wether or not this is sustainable for 2 years until the next expansion.

i‘d support a 1-1-1 combo over and 1-2-3 combo if we would get new skills that would make gameplay more exciting or older skills again. i‘m just a little stressed sometimes when a new expansion comes a long with new skills that older ones get killed off. (scholar flashbacks)

[Jirah]

I changed my stance on this several times as people debate 1-2-3 will be boring or just not practical to merge when only a few jobs dont have divergent rotations GNB DRK and MCH being the only DPS with a never ending 1-2-3.

For the people against it:
besides MCH, no job is just its rotation DRG need its disembowel and jumps NIN needs its ninjitsu, SAM never had a straight forward 1-2-3. MNK also need to focus on keeping up twin and demo, no caster needs this besides of few QOL stuff like RDM physical finisher and SMN Trances and some tweaks with BLM. The job wont be any easier , a case here and there can be made with a few tanks and MCH but otherwise the jobs will retain their joy and make room for other refinements and free up space

[MidhoiHidmoi]

Uhhh no. There are plenty of situations that happen in content where you might want to do something different than your usual 1-2-3 / 4-5-6. If youre finding the job complicated because it has more than one button, go read up on it or play healer.

[Achantion]

Why are people assuming that condensing combo's into a single button makes the game easier? That is a very, very short sighted way to look at things, and totally disregards the possibilities it could offer.

I'm not even going to address the fact that 1-2-3 isn't harder than 1-1-1, but I'll try make a case as to why it should be condensed.

The issue right now with most combo's is that they just aren't very exciting, and they are always repeated ad nauseum. Take DRK for example, you will ALWAYS do 1-2-3, why does it need to be 3 buttons? Just merge them into one, and give us back the old enmity combo as a secondary button (But make it inflict a dot or something). This would double the action a DRK could do, and even have some more design space for something fun like an additional oGCD, with the same amount of buttons.

Those who want the buttons merged aren't advocating for less abilities, they are advocating for more abilities. Merging the boring ones into a single button allows for more design space for other, more fun abilities.

Enough abilities get deleted as is, and this is an issue DIRECTLY linked to button bloat. Merging combo's would allow us to keep all of our toys, and receive new ones without suffering button bloat.

I'd rather have each button on my bar be a totally unique combo-chain or oGCD, than wasting 4 buttons for a sequence of attacks that practically never changes.

The issue regarding healers I've seen littered in this thread isn't that 1-1-1 is boring, it's that 1-1-1 is the only option they have. Give them a 1-1-1, a 2-2 and a 3-3-3-3 and not a single one will complain if each of those option has a specific use case.

[Seraphor]

The only jobs that really have a combo however are the melee, and MCH.
MCH has far too few buttons as it is so I see no reason to consolidate those.
I've just explained why I don't think any of the melee DPS should have their combo's consolidated.
That just leaves tanks, which already have simpler rotations than the DPS anyway.

Perhaps some of the tanks could see something done with their combo's to differentiate them a bit. I would suggest maybe mix up PLD's combos, and maybe consolidate some of GNB's. Especially as they're two jobs that quite blatantly do have too many buttons.
WAR and DRK if anything need something a little more than what they have, although DRK already has a decent number of skills, it's just it's burst phase that is too simple and similar to WARs.

I quite like the 'variety' of combo systems that the phys ranged have. MCH has 1-2-3, BRD has 1-(maybe)-2 that is dependant on an RNG you can influence, and DNC has a 1-2/A-B system kinda like RDM.
If they could rework the tanks a little something like this, I'd be down for that.

[Achantion]

MCH has far too few buttons as it is so I see no reason to consolidate those.

Because when consolidated, other combo's with different uses can be added? Why should a class only have 1 combo?

Additionally, a rotation is no reason to shy away from consolidation, as new rotation will be made with a new system too. A branching combo's can be solved in the vein of NIN's Shadow Fang (which was a combo finisher originally).

Consolidation is about maintaining what we have, instead of how it is now, where every class looses stuff. Example: Why did the DRK loose his secondary combo it had for years? Sure enmity has changed, but couldn't they just change the effect from increased enmity to a DoT and keep the entire combo? The answer is button bloat, removing the combo freed up 3 buttons for others stuff yet left the DRK with only 1 combo to do over and over. I see a lot of people complain about healer 1-1-1, but how is the DRK 1-2-3 different? Both deal damage and do nothing more, both also have no additional options. If they just consolidated the combo's they have 2 buttons with twice the combo's and an additional gameplay aspect (the DoT in my example) with an additional 4 they could use for other buffs/debuffs/oGCD's.

Pressing a button is pressing a button. Pressing 1 is the same as pressing 2 to me. It's the effect on the button that matters, if I press 1 and deal damage and press 2 and get a shield, THAT feels different to me. If I press 1 and do damage, and press 2 and do damage, how is that different from pressing 1 twice?

Edit: I can agree upon the DNC execution. That is the only job I fail to see consolidation working for.

[Seraphor]

Shadowfang was a combo finisher like Armour Crush. It's now a standalone GCD skill.
It's been removed from the combo but it hasn't resulted in any button consolidation at all.
If you actually consolidate NIN's combo skills, you save 2 buttons at most, but then NIN's rotation is 50% hitting 1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-2 etc.

Do you really want DRG to be 1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-2-2-2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-2-2-2-2 with occasional Jumps?

Again, how do you accommodate for MNK's Perfect Balance, Form Shift or SAM's Meikyo Shisui?

"Pressing a button is pressing a button. Pressing 1 is the same as pressing 2 to me. It's the effect on the button that matters, if I press 1 and deal damage and press 2 and get a shield, THAT feels different to me. If I press 1 and do damage, and press 2 and do damage, how is that different from pressing 1 twice?"
90% of any given DPS jobs skillset basically just deals damage. I'm sure you're not saying 90% of their kit could be replaced with 1 button...

You say consolidating buttons makes room for new skills, but then how long until you want those new skills consolidated and we're back where we started? After all, they all just deal damage.

[Achantion]

Shadowfang was a combo finisher like Armour Crush. It's now a standalone GCD skill.

That was just an example of how you could handle certain moves in a worst case scenario.
Ideally I'd stick 'em all in a combo, or one of button with cooldown.

If you actually consolidate NIN's combo skills, you save 2 buttons at most, but then NIN's rotation is 50% hitting 1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-2 etc.

Do you really want DRG to be 1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-2-2-2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-2-2-2-2 with occasional Jumps?

It's indeed very convenient if you ignore oGCD's and combo's that could have been added instead in your examples. The whole idea is to create more combo's with a specific purpose instead of damage dumps.

See the following example:
1 = three hit basic damage combo
2 = two hit combo ending in a dot
3 = four hit combo ending in a resource stack (let's say 3) that can be spend on 4.
4 = Ability with cooldown that doesn't break combo
5 = random oGCD buff
6 = random oGCD group buff
7 = random oGCD attack with follow up attack
8 = Shadow fang like stand alone

3 - 5 -3 -3 - 3 - 4 - 8 - 7 - 7 - 2 - 6 - 2 - 1- 4 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 2 - 4 -2 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 3 - 8 etc..

Less buttons than most existing classes, yet more engaging because it has multiple things to do with different pre-requisites and other stuff.

Again, how do you accommodate for MNK's Perfect Balance, Form Shift or SAM's Meikyo Shisui?
[/I]

I don't see the issue here? These skills right now are needed because of the way the game is designed right now. Just adept these skills to work in the new system.

Meikyo Shisui as an example: You either use this skill to get your 3 sens (which are all combo finishers so there is no problem at all, as this could perfectly work in a consolidated approach) or to quickly refresh buffs. In case of the second option, just change the way skills are designed with the new system in mind. Easy fixes are to stick the buff in the combo finisher, create oGCD's for these buffs, or just live with it that you can't use Meikyo Shisui to achieve these, which is perfectly valid too.

You say consolidating buttons makes room for new skills, but then how long until you want those new skills consolidated and we're back where we started? After all, they all just deal damage.

Obviously not, if each "chain" is designed with an idea/mechanic in mind. You yourself suggested to combine skills like Ley Lines and Between the Lines, so you obviously understand some skills belong together.

On the other hand, it's easy to see skills like Vorpal Trust and Jump don't belong together, as Jump includes movement an animation lock, unlocks Mirage Dive, etc.. Meanwhile Vorpal Trust, True Trust and Full Trust are simple reskins of each other that work identical and only Full Trust serves a purpose, so nothing is lost consolidating these.