Why doesn't pve have pvp combo structure?

[LittleImp]

It literally doesn't. A button press is a button press regardless if it is 1/4 inch away from another or if it's the same button pressed 3 times.

The skill gap in FFXIV is all about maximizing OGCD usage.

Not really. Most optimization is more encounter specific, and there are many in the game that require unique approaches in regards to combo usage and gcd manipulation. Even in low-end content like Matoya's Relict, encounters like the second and third boss take pretty unique approaches from some jobs to optimize. There's a reason 'PLD spreadsheets' is a meme.

[Dogempire]

Pressing separate buttons adds an additional layer of execution the game sorely needs. Most content is already braindead scripted, imagine having to do it while only pressing one button over and over again. People already rejected the changes to healer that have you doing just that.

We might as well put one button on DDR mats or guitar hero controllers at this rate.

Next people will be asking "why cant we just automate the game?".

Honestly, good point, some jobs are already boring enough, and if they're going to shift skills to only be on one button they better give us something else to occupy our attention in its place

[ItMe]

Next people will be asking "why we can't just automate the game".

Players have tried to macro their rotation for a loooooong time.
Part of me feels like this 111 idea is a compromise of sorts, but ultimately I find this topic interesting because of the discussion it's hovering around: which is more valuable, executing a more complicated rotation or executing more complicated mechanics.

[Dogempire]

Players have tried to macro their rotation for a loooooong time.
Part of me feels like this 111 idea is a compromise of sorts, but ultimately I find this topic interesting because of the discussion it's hovering around: which is more valuable, executing a more complicated rotation or executing more complicated mechanics.

Considering that SE has wanted healers to do more healing and less damage, and the only places where this philosophy actually applies is in savage/ultimates, I don't really trust SE with trying to give us more complicated mechanics.

Maybe I'm just becoming cynical at this point but any time SE tries to simplify something it usually just ends up making the job more boring and sacrifices job identity for making it accessible to anyone, which is nice for new players but for people who have been playing for years it just results in less interesting and less varied gameplay.

[spf1200]

Pressing separate buttons adds an additional layer of execution the game sorely needs. Most content is already braindead scripted, imagine having to do it while only pressing one button over and over again. People already rejected the changes to healer that have you doing just that.

We might as well put one button on DDR mats or guitar hero controllers at this rate.

Next people will be asking "why cant we just automate the game?".

This is such a dumb argument. Press 123 isn't any more complex or deep than 111. This is always the reason people give for not waningd this changes and it is straight up bull. Stop trying to act like pointless hotbar blat add complexity to the game. Nothing we have asked for would make the combat less complicated than it already is, it would be the same number of button presses and same apm.

If you are against this change please give a logical reason for God's sake. I've seen these threads for years and have NEVER seen a reason against this change that make since

[shao32]

having to press diferent buttons for 1 or multiple combos add the risk you fat fingered or you hit the wrong/same key making you break you combo and probably mess with your rotation a bit depending of what job are you playing, having everything in 1 buttom you literally remove that factor and it's simplification since it literally makes the player reduce the amount of diferent buttons they need to use to execute they rotations so yes it makes the game easier.

[spf1200]

having to press diferent buttons for 1 or multiple combos add the risk you fat fingered or you hit the wrong/same key making you break you combo and probably mess with your rotation a bit depending of what job are you playing, having everything in 1 buttom you literally remove that factor and it's simplification since it literally makes the player reduce the amount of diferent buttons they need to use to execute they rotations so yes it makes the game easier.

I think I'm done with the thread...

[Theodric]

I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of abilities being merged into the same button. Aside from hopefully helping players perform their rotations better, it leaves room for some interesting abilities to be added in place of the 'lost' button presses.

[SaberMaxwell]

Knowing you have exactly 4GCD's until a mob dies or invulnerability phase starts up is something that will rarely, if ever, happen, but I guess that is one use for breaking combos if you're trying to extreme min/max something.

There's no reason that throwing the basic combo buttons onto different keybinds couldn't still be an option; but 99.99999% of the time I'd still want them consolidated, though.

What he's describing and what you're saying never happens is called 'optimization' and lots of people do it, consciously or no.

My $0.02 is I don't trust SE to replace what we got with something better, so I'm going to stick with the devil I know.

[Satarn]

While pressing 123 vs 111 might not make some huge difference in "complexity"(although it certainly does some), the main thing is how it affects "engagement" - which is what actually matters 100% of the time when it comes to game design. When people ask for things to be more complex, it's not really about some stupid bragging rights and ego of "playing a harder thing" - it's about the difficulty providing a challenge and thus more engagement. Sometimes things can in fact be more engaging without being considerably harder, just like some difficulty might occasionally not be engaging but only annoying.

You might not consciously realize that, but for your brain moving the finger slightly before pressing another button is a bit more stimulating than just pressing the same button over and over and it helps with engagement. We can already see this issue on a smaller scale in how plenty of people dislike the "press this button 5 times in 10 seconds" buffs on many jobs and on a bigger scale with how many more people hate the new healer "rotations".

Now, there are absolutely games with consolidated combos which are actually more engaging than the FFXIV combination system. There are games which only allow for something like 8 or 10 skills on your hotbars at the time instead of the "piano rotations" of this game and somehow manage to make their combat systems feel more complex and fun.
However the difference is these games usually have way faster gcd speed(if any), more branching in their combos, more reactive class mechanics(proc based combos, generally procs being a game mechanic instead of "job identity"), more dynamic resource management, waaaay lower cooldowns(seriously, the fact that 30 seconds is considered a "low cd" in FFXIV is hilarious when you look at other games where 20 seconds is considered "long cd") and not nearly as scripted fights, possibly with some actual reactive dodging involved. Comparing the number of buttons in FFXIV to games with so vastly different gameplays isn't really fair at all.

A lot of people here seem to hope that with less hotbar space spent on combos, devs could add more complexity in new skills, but to that I have to ask - have you paid any attention at all for the last four years? The current game direction is definitely not suggesting anything close to that, in fact SE is rather hell-bent on removing any sort of difficulty from the jobs and streamlining anything remotely demanding. It's already started to a degree with transition from HW to SB, but for SHB it's practically the theme of the entire expansion and it's doubtful that it'll change anytime soon - especially with all the blind praise and new players the expac has brought just because the story was great.
Many of us just don't believe at all that devs would use the consolidation for anything interesting and for a good reason, so we want to at least keep any tiny bits we have left.