Plots everywhere demolished and open!

[SturmChurro]

Well take a look around at some other players homes. Thats one way to help get ideas going for how to decorate, and just for the fun of it. If you ever visit lamia drop by lavenderbed ward 12 plot 10, the player who owns it decorted it in a way that. Makes it give a really uncomfortable vibe and be wary of the downstairs...it kills FPS

I'll have to check it out. Yeah, some people can be very creative, and make some really nice houses. I'm sure it takes a lot of work. I would like to do the same someday.

At this point if they put entire instanced islands up on the mog station, like ESO, I wouldn't even mind. Why have an FC house when you can make an FC village?

Yeah right! ESO is a horrible example. Their instanced housing is a cash cow for them, they sell houses on there for like a hundred dollars, and do "limited" time sales. It's horrific. If we are talking JUST instanced housing to that extent, NO mogstation, yeah that'd be cool.

[LisSquid]

Yeah right! ESO is a horrible example. Their instanced housing is a cash cow for them, they sell houses on there for like a hundred dollars, and do "limited" time sales. It's horrific. If we are talking JUST instanced housing to that extent, NO mogstation, yeah that'd be cool.

Meh. Idk what else you'd spend the monthly crowns on. They pile up so I buy houses.

I'd rather they just let us buy instanced housing for gil.

[SturmChurro]

Meh. Idk what else you'd spend the monthly crowns on. They pile up so I buy houses.

I'd rather they just let us buy instanced housing for gil.

I don't have any monthly crowns. And a pile up of monthly crowns is no excuse for their "limited" time "sales", lootboxes, 50 dollar mounts, and 100 dollar houses. Not everyone is subscribed to that game, it's a buy to play game. I don't care if they have a crafting bag, it's inexcusable. It shouldn't be copied into other games. The only thing they do good is the scope of their instanced housing, aside from their cash shop.

[Shougun]

Meh. Idk what else you'd spend the monthly crowns on. They pile up so I buy houses.

I'd rather they just let us buy instanced housing for gil.

I don't have any monthly crowns. And a pile up of monthly crowns is no excuse for their "limited" time "sales", lootboxes, 50 dollar mounts, and 100 dollar houses. Not everyone is subscribed to that game, it's a buy to play game. I don't care if they have a crafting bag, it's inexcusable. It shouldn't be copied into other games. The only thing they do good is the scope of their instanced housing, aside from their cash shop.

IF SE added a means for people who sub to gain a reasonable access to mog shop items then I'd find mog shop concepts far less, BOOOO lol. But certainly if they added items to the mogshop without a reasonable source to purchase them through subscription it would be /awful/.

I see FFXIV as a sub 2 play game though so to me when I hear you get monthly tokens in ESO and it's not too hard to stack them out, honestly (in translation to FFXIV) doesn't sound that bad and actually a benefit to us if we had that. Just wanted to add some context, in case SE is wondering what people think - that'd be my thought. From the point of view of a sub 2 play game, I don't hate that idea and see it's a decent way to make some extra funds that aren't too bad. Like I don't think the seasonal on the cash shop are horrible, and actually if you had monthly tokens I feel it would be even less so. I don't really mind the stuff that doesn't fit in the game at all either, or from other FFs, but I do find stuff that's clearly from this game removed and added back in as like "boo" (but similarly on houses if there was a reasonable rate of tokens each month then 'not that bad').

This naturally assumes that they continue to produce either EQUAL or GREATER quality content that's part of the experience as well (which is where naturally many people, and rightfully so, get leery and scared of corporations rubbing their slick money lubed hands together and try to do less for more - we see this all the time).

Lootboxes should still not be a thing though, it's clearly gambling. I don't care what lawyer limbo circus someone try to pull- lootboxes are obviously gambling that pray on people's impulsive desires, but worse because there is no monetary value and are easier to do at all times as you don't have to travel to any location to be part of it (can't or are not supposed to be able to sell anything you obtain from the game). Gambling for rain water in the tropics. No lootboxes. Sell what you're going to sell, lol. (Altough for those gambling reasons I can see why they're popular to use, big money as people will spend far more than they would have on an outright purchase... which should tell you their problem and what they are in a nutshell xD). At least with trading card games you actually get an item, that you could theoretically sell (sometimes when opening a TCG pack you might make money for example, you're not making anything with digital lootboxes unless you plan to break ToS). Even that though, personally, I don't like TCG based around the gambling mechanic (random card packs)- I like the card games that just sell sets (non-random) and you get what you paid for and you know it'll be a good experience because they had to be sure that's what they were selling (selling fun, not a chance at fun).

Personally I thought if they did instanced world space housing (like Rift, Wildstar, ESO, etc) that they would provide through story a zone to each player (or account), and then if players wanted they could buy additional ones (like retainers)- maybe even strip some of the money parts of it out. Like additional spaces can store and display items, but the gardens, submarines, etc, wouldn't return items - this way people couldn't purchase printing presses (like they do with retainers.. lol). I wouldn't mind themes sold, like ESO so long as there were either two stipulations, A) it's very feasible to purchase them with monthly given tokens or B) there are in game houses that are equal in quality and the shop ones sell ONLY themes that don't belong in the game (like you might buy a midgard house, vivi village house, or something).

Said something similarly on the concept of airships, where you would not have any airship that belongs in the game sold on the cash shop BUT you could say buy FFV Lunar Whale or FFIX invincible, FFVII Highwind, etc. Especially neat if they were like the primal statues, so you could have a FF airship statue. Alternatively using the logic above if they gave a reasonable rate of monthly tokens, that'd not make it so annoying (to me). But if there was either a hilariously terrible rate of tokens, drop in quality and amount of content, or just pure exclusivity to the shop (especially stuff non-seasonal that was extracted from the game) and no tokens then I'd probably also be pretty miffed.

As I said though it's certainly fair to be leery, or just want a better value... SE may be using the funds to make better game(s) and much better working environments or they may just be giving their higher ups progressively larger and larger bonuses while everyone else crunches harder and harder with less support and worse leadership which causes lower quality games. We've actively seen the later happen for other companies. Imo I want to see SE do well and everyone their have reasonable work life enjoyment, so it's why I mentioned some of my thoughts - but I could see SE take such thoughts and twist them into making themselves a situation to do less in general while making more (while all companies have to make money a good game company will also want to make a great game at the same time).

Naturally the best would be everything in game and no shop exists and the game is perfect... Lol. Just wanted to lay out some thoughts, at least personally I think SE does still read our forums even if others have doubts.

[LisSquid]

IF SE added a means for people who sub to gain a reasonable access to mog shop items then I'd find mog shop concepts far less, BOOOO lol.

Oh, for real!! I was speaking to my fc about how it's just wrong to be a sub-to-play model AND have a cash shop. The idea of a cash shop was to supplement money that wasn't being made from a subscription model. I also have qualms with sub2play games needing you to purchase the game outright. Considering we don't get $60 worth of game at launch... but that's another argument entirely.

Lootboxes should still not be a thing though

Agreed. They're predatory no matter how to look at them, and the worst thing to come to games as a service. (I never said anything about lootboxes, so I'm not sure where that is coming from. I really was just saying larger-than-an-entire-city house plots being in the mogstation would be something I could swallow as the situation of extra retainers has been explained to us.)

The only solution to the housing situation is the expansion of apartments and instanced housing. Every time they expand wards is just sort of like they're covering their ears and going lalalalalla to every criticism of the system.

[Shougun]

Oh, for real!! I was speaking to my fc about how it's just wrong to be a sub-to-play model AND have a cash shop. The idea of a cash shop was to supplement money that wasn't being made from a subscription model. I also have qualms with sub2play games needing you to purchase the game outright. Considering we don't get $60 worth of game at launch... but that's another argument entirely.



Agreed. They're predatory no matter how to look at them, and the worst thing to come to games as a service. (I never said anything about lootboxes, so I'm not sure where that is coming from. I really was just saying larger-than-an-entire-city house plots being in the mogstation would be something I could swallow as the situation of extra retainers has been explained to us.)

The only solution to the housing situation is the expansion of apartments and instanced housing. Every time they expand wards is just sort of like they're covering their ears and going lalalalalla to every criticism of the system.

For the first part, yee lol. I would only see it as a win if FFXIV gave us a sort of monthly crowns system. Naturally they don't feel they need to do so they don't.. XD.... But it's what I've been suggesting (hopefully they change their mind), in some sort of essence, for a while with the veteran reward system. I saw their original system was going to cause issues where they might award at 5 years this awesome item but then someone new (late join to the game) is going to be like "this game is going to be massively outdated in 5 years and I would love to have it before then..".. so I was trying to push SE towards that concept where you could purchase these cool new items or if you didn't want the one they release you could pick something else instead (naturally the rate of tokens being not so much to make the cash shop useless for SE but also not so little that a player is like "great it'll still take me 5 years to get that item" lol).

As for the lootbox thing I brought them up simply because SturmChurro did. I did a dual response so I can see how you might think I suggested that on your post, but I was replying to both at the same time since I felt they related enough.

Finally on housing yeah.. said many many years ago but ultimately the /only/ solution to FFXIV's housing problems will be empowering / creating a different house system. Whether that be apartments that can upgrade into instanced house spaces, or using FFXIV' ShB's lore like in that one special zone... to create a story moment that unlocks personal instanced (powerful) housing, whatever. If this was the first game to have housing it might sound reasonable to be like "that's not technologically possible" but we can SEE other games not only let you have one house but multiple personal houses, without limit for how many players play the game ("it just works" - Todd Howard).

We know it's a thing that can be overcome. So it's far less easy to be like "yeh oh well".

But their current system will only keep causing problems, for it's entire life span. You add more houses, the neighborhoods die, you add enough so it's 1:1 for each player then it means some players can never get X size or Y Theme, neighborhoods still dying, you don't add so many so the neighborhoods are better (perhaps they cost more too).. people can't get houses then, houses are limited so you need to take them away from players if they dont play (hold players hostage, and discourage players to return if they lost something they cared about), have to ensure reselling isn't too easy else houses will sell for 500x they cost from SE because they've a market issue (so now you've players standing at placards doing some of the worst soul crushing gameplay I've heard, praying they can get a house.. for hours.. doing actions that are just like a bot would have to do). Honestly if they wanted "THIS" system they should have kept players out of it and made it cost even more than it used to... but of course I feel that'd be silly and housing should be more attainable and an experience for all (or let's say they did go that route of only for FC, then it should be an experience for all FC (which it's often not) like you might point at GW2 in that sense where each "fc" gets a guild zone).

There will always be that "this system is shooting itself and all the players right in the foot and the face at the same time". It's why, even if FFXIV might never escape this system, that I'm like "I hope to never see this one system again, ever".

[SturmChurro]

ESO just uses the "free" monthly crowns as an excuse to jam pack their cash shop full of items. Their "limited time" sales for both lootboxes, and just general items, are a horrifying business practice. It's bait. They get your sub-fee and players will presumably dump their free crowns on certain limited items, or lootboxes, then when the next limited sale pops up they have to spend real money OR miss out, with the "limited time" header looming. They are preying on people. The exorbitant prices are just further proof. The free crowns are just there to get you into the cash shop. It's a ploy. SE on the other hand, has a cash shop with fairly reasonably priced items - in comparison to other MMOs, that isn't advertised heavily, and it's not even actually in the game. It doesn't get updated every single week, and everything sold there is there to stay, and you don't have to HOPE you get something in a lootbox. You pay up front, and you are good. I like how SE has handled their cash shop.

I do think SE should offer more, new sub rewards, however, credits to the mogstation is a debatable issue, in my opinion.

When it comes to housing. ESO has very good instanced housing. You can even see the property on the map. You can walk to it on the map - so it's there, but it's not. The scale is massive, and the amount of customization therein is amazing. SE could take notes from this, I will agree with that point, and that point alone - when it comes to ESO housing. Players could have properties even greater than having a large plot.

[LisSquid]

ESO just uses the "free" monthly crowns as an excuse to jam pack their cash shop full of items.

I use the sub to not have to buy every single little expansion pack. Dropping $15 for a month to do all the content and then not play for a while is more cost effective for me as a player. There are greater issues with them scalping rewards out of high end content for the crownstore, but that is a separate discussion that lines up with SE itself.

SE on the other hand, has a cash shop with fairly reasonably priced items

SE is a pay to play game with $40 mounts in their cash shop. For a game that has no benefit for picking one race or another (reasons race change purchases, or other games refusing to offer them, exist) they make you pay $10 for the privilege of changing your skin color.

I also don't buy the guilt-trip that "proceeds made from the mogstation go right back to ffxiv developers". That's where our sub should go.


Also I will say you can't really call ESO's limited time sales limited when they pop up like clockwork to the point people have made spreadsheets about it.

[SturmChurro]

I use the sub to not have to buy every single little expansion pack. Dropping $15 for a month to do all the content and then not play for a while is more cost effective for me as a player. There are greater issues with them scalping rewards out of high end content for the crownstore, but that is a separate discussion that lines up with SE itself.



SE is a pay to play game with $40 mounts in their cash shop. For a game that has no benefit for picking one race or another (reasons race change purchases, or other games refusing to offer them, exist) they make you pay $10 for the privilege of changing your skin color.

I also don't buy the guilt-trip that "proceeds made from the mogstation go right back to ffxiv developers". That's where our sub should go.


Also I will say you can't really call ESO's limited time sales limited when they pop up like clockwork to the point people have made spreadsheets about it.

Why would you buy any of their DLC with your crowns, when if you are subbed all the time anyway stacking those monthly crowns, you have access to all DLC? You get literally nothing out of those monthly crowns at that point. How much do you play those DLC, not subbed? If you have to be subbed several months to even buy the DLC in the first place, you are paying for them just the same as you would upfront. Just slowly, overtime.

FFXIV has ONE $36 dollar, (which is less than ESO mounts) account-wide, that multiple people can ride. With about 16 or 17 mogstation specific mounts, and the rest being holiday mounts (total 25). In comparison ESO has HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS of mounts that you have to have PAID for with crowns alone. Now, granted, I do think there should be an alternative to the Chocobo carriage that can be attained at any time in-game. But please, it's not even equivalent.

They are "limited", there is a reason I included " ". It's artificial* scarcity, as I said, it's a ploy.

[Shougun]

ESO just uses the "free" monthly crowns as an excuse to jam pack their cash shop full of items. Their "limited time" sales for both lootboxes, and just general items, are a horrifying business practice. It's bait. They get your sub-fee and players will presumably dump their free crowns on certain limited items, or lootboxes, then when the next limited sale pops up they have to spend real money OR miss out, with the "limited time" header looming. They are preying on people. The exorbitant prices are just further proof. The free crowns are just there to get you into the cash shop. It's a ploy. SE on the other hand, has a cash shop with fairly reasonably priced items - in comparison to other MMOs, that isn't advertised heavily, and it's not even actually in the game. It doesn't get updated every single week, and everything sold there is there to stay, and you don't have to HOPE you get something in a lootbox. You pay up front, and you are good. I like how SE has handled their cash shop.

I do think SE should offer more, new sub rewards, however, credits to the mogstation is a debatable issue, in my opinion.

When it comes to housing. ESO has very good instanced housing. You can even see the property on the map. You can walk to it on the map - so it's there, but it's not. The scale is massive, and the amount of customization therein is amazing. SE could take notes from this, I will agree with that point, and that point alone - when it comes to ESO housing. Players could have properties even greater than having a large plot.

I would add one point and then concede one.

A) I view ESO from afar, in the sense that I hear people talk about it, watch videos on content people reference (so I'm not entirely unaware when talking lol), and I tried the beta. I don't actively play / have played the recent game. I also only view other MMOs to see what can encourage FFXIV to be better (or SE's next mmo, since I think that far as well). So like there are some parts of the garrison system in WoW I think are quite awesome, and other parts that clearly it's own player base thought were poorly tended to and implemented. So other games is for sampling the best concepts, I've not the interest to go and improve their feature for them lol. We're at the ice cream sundae buffet bar

B) Conceded here is that you can definitely abuse players by making hilarious tier 'deals'. $200 for Odin mount, but for the month of July at the same time we release this other content that it'll 'only' be 25$! (Hyperbolic example lol).

The point to me is theoretically if FFXIV had similar structure to now in terms of game content IN game, and yet they add some say houses, perhaps some other FF content mounts and ouftits (more than they do now), their dyes they already have, retainers sure, etc all purchase-able with a monthly token item that would simply be a win for us. Not a loss.

Win for SE as well in terms of customer reception of the shop, and potentially financially as well if they had ways to pay with a mix of token and cash (so then you could make something cheaper). "I wont pay 8$ for that emote but I'd pay 3$ Or I want it and it'll cost me nothing extra because I'll just simply stack my sub token and use that". Adds some more value to the idea of staying subbed even if you're taking a break BUT also doesn't hold you hostage like our current houses do (if you stop you just stop collecting 'crowns', nothing is taken away). Technically it'd probably be crysta but I really want the mogshop to use mog currency like kupo nuts or poms or something lol (also want to see mognet built in game, with extra in game mog content and then back door hidden scene for an in game shop where you could test wear / ride stuff). Bribing the moogle with the kupo nuts so moogle boss Ms. M doesn't see you walk out of the shop with the item paid only in nuts lol.

Like I said though I'm using the lens of looking at ESO as if it was also a P2P like FFXIV. Given the circumstance of P2P of FFXIV I see getting tokens as a pure win. If you view ESO as a F2P (B2P) and then add on top all the weird sales you are mentioning (loot boxes), etc, then I guess I can see your angle of it being bad.

But since I'm looking only to make FFXIV better (well at least from my perspective lol, I'd like it better for everyone including the devs but naturally there is a bias of desires).. so I have a hard time seeing the crowns as some evil (assuming they keep similar structure to now and don't pull "500% off house now only 250$". There is obviously some caveats lol.

Personally wouldn't call 30$ mounts reasonable btw, but I get you were making a comparative statement . Like saying Apple products are reasonably priced XD... The amount you think it's worth vs it's worth vs what you would actually pay.


Edit: To your last post on instanced housing made available in game, I was posting under the assumption that it would either be extra slots or for special themes not 'the only way' to get a house. Although if the token system was generous enough I might not be annoyed still, but the best gameplay implementation would be one that allows the shop to supplement the experience and not be "the experience". Akin to retainers or something. Or like if they added retainer customization and then sold some special glamours that made your retainer look like your favorite waifu/manfu. I would give zero Thal Balls if they sold Cloud's appearance as a retainer, or a little bit more annoying but still 'fine' is being able to purchase more retainers (although I hope SE doesn't let that system ruin their thoughts on making better inventory systems, like crafting bags or whatever), but then if the only way to obtain any retainer what so ever was via the shop I'd be like "WOW. That's awful".