Difficulty of Dungeons

[Aiscence]

I think there's 3 big problem: dungeon philosophy, SE and people themselves.

1) The dungeon philosophy because even if they are making them more "varied", nothing punishes you, so you don't learn. Look at how many people at lvl 80 still not having any idea what to do with a stack. Most bosses actually work the same way, and I think that's why people find them bland? i'll do the rundown a bit lower.
2) SE because they could provide an in game encyclopedia with the most common markers (stack, eartshakers, red marker, tethers), a basic rundown of the mechanics of each dungeon after clearing them (like wow did) or even basic role/job guide, as they are doing it as a paper guide they sell anyway. On top of that, because you can be banned for just guiding someone if they get pissy, that doesnt really motivate anyone.
3) And the players, because they don't want to put effort in a game? (you don't pay my sub syndrom)

It's sad because every dungeon is basically: Aoe every 30/60 seconds, followed by a tankbuster nearly 10 seconds later or inverted. And people legit find that hard to heal. After that it's basically a mechanic, very casually shown, then the aoe, the tb then back to the mechanic but "with a bonus" and that's it. And they do the same in raids, look at the latest nier raid, second boss, kefka syndrom: they show the left/rigth mechanic, then they show something that makes it a twist, but if you use basic logic you can guess very easily that it's probably the opposite?

I just can't understand how people can find the actual dungeon design to be hard after you understand that?

[ItMe]

For what it's worth I found the newest duty (Paglyh'an) a good step in the right direction.

[LariaKirin]

I think the state of dungeons is pretty widely accepted at this point. It doesn't help that difficulty is dead on arrival because we are significantly overgeared for the content on release (Extreme trials have the same problem).

I'd rather we get something like WoW's Mythic+. Though, alot of the difficulty there is on trash pulls and our trash pull combat mechanics are too simplistic for that. So instead, tinker with the difficulty in a way we're good at. Just some 5 min ideas: periodic stack markers from start to end, randomized and faster mechanics, layer mechanics that weren't in the boss fight before, etc. I'm sure having more time to think about it would produce some better ideas.

This opens a can of worms, but we desperately need content with a scaling system so that the gear we get is not completely worthless in odd patches where there is no Ultimate. Which, at this point, looks to be 2/3 of the expansion.

[kiagenwa]

thb as a comparatively new player, I love it when I got higher level dungeon in roulette. It's less boring with all the skills I have, and some dungeon mechanics.
I think it would be great if dungeons at high level (something like 71+?) are more challenging.

Now I'm still stuck in ARR content so not sure of 5.0+, but from time to time I still see healer/tank struggle to keep up with their roles :/
So yeah, challenging dungeons should exist more, but should be in another cat for roulette

[Mahoukenshi]

I think there's 3 big problem: dungeon philosophy, SE and people themselves.

1) The dungeon philosophy because even if they are making them more "varied", nothing punishes you, so you don't learn. Look at how many people at lvl 80 still not having any idea what to do with a stack. Most bosses actually work the same way, and I think that's why people find them bland? i'll do the rundown a bit lower.
2) SE because they could provide an in game encyclopedia with the most common markers (stack, eartshakers, red marker, tethers), a basic rundown of the mechanics of each dungeon after clearing them (like wow did) or even basic role/job guide, as they are doing it as a paper guide they sell anyway. On top of that, because you can be banned for just guiding someone if they get pissy, that doesnt really motivate anyone.
3) And the players, because they don't want to put effort in a game? (you don't pay my sub syndrom)

It's sad because every dungeon is basically: Aoe every 30/60 seconds, followed by a tankbuster nearly 10 seconds later or inverted. And people legit find that hard to heal. After that it's basically a mechanic, very casually shown, then the aoe, the tb then back to the mechanic but "with a bonus" and that's it. And they do the same in raids, look at the latest nier raid, second boss, kefka syndrom: they show the left/rigth mechanic, then they show something that makes it a twist, but if you use basic logic you can guess very easily that it's probably the opposite?

I just can't understand how people can find the actual dungeon design to be hard after you understand that?

Even though I couldn't care less about it, I can't understand how someone can't understand that people can find someting "hard" which they perceive as "faceroll easy lololol". This depends partly if you run the same dungeon(s) more than once and/or get "surprised" (for lack of a better word) if it suddenly shows up in roulettes. Maybe they suck but don't care, maybe they suck and geniunely try, maybe they just wand to be carried, maybe it's just you being super awesome?

[Aiscence]

I'm far from awesome but I hate being an hindrance to who I play with or interact with in life in general. So the same way IRL I'll do my best and learn how things work to not cause any problems, I'll do the same in a game, where me being bad can cause a lot of discomfort for people around as they are living people, like IRL.

There's a difference between someone trying but failing and someone spamming cure 1 and getting oom. Same as people legit thinking a 200 potency on single target is stronger than one that is 120 potency on aoe when on mob packs.

In the past, the game was more complicated and people still managed, that's because they had to get better to progress in the game, most people don't look forward to get better before hitting a wall, me included, that's generally how humans work. Can't count how many people had to step up their game for shinryu or the last solo duty of stormblood. Did they pass it? yes they did. Hence why, for me, some basic guides should be included in game, with basic markers, boss strategies and jobs advice, which would help people a lot.

[iVolke]

For what it's worth I found the newest duty (Paglyh'an) a good step in the right direction.

I didn't. It was just as easy as Matoya's Relict. The 2nd boss is literally just trash and Lunar Bahamut had so much build up for him to literally be nothing. I did it yesterday, I honestly don't even remember the 1st boss.

[Anhra]

I didn't. It was just as easy as Matoya's Relict. The 2nd boss is literally just trash and Lunar Bahamut had so much build up for him to literally be nothing. I did it yesterday, I honestly don't even remember the 1st boss.

Paglth'an feels more like a promotional Event for Prestinien, rather than a proper Dungeon. I wouldn't be suprised if even a Red Mage alone could cover all the healing needed in that Dungeon, since a Conjurer is more than capable of clearing any Dungeon, including Paglth'an, at this Point (added said info into the OP).

[Vyrerus]

Paglth'an feels more like a promotional Event for Prestinien, rather than a proper Dungeon. I wouldn't be suprised if even a Red Mage alone could cover all the healing needed in that Dungeon, since a Conjurer is more than capable of clearing any Dungeon, including Paglth'an, at this Point (added said info into the OP).

No healer is needed in Paglth'an, nor in any dungeon. With a 3rd DPS or even with just a healer DCing, dungeons are easy enough that with proper play you can beat them without healers.

[Liam_Harper]

For what it's worth I found the newest duty (Paglyh'an) a good step in the right direction.

Wasn't my experience sadly. As healer I just stood in all the mob aoe for more cast uptime because Asylum and Assize outhealed it. I also learned you can take 3 stacks of the lightning debuff from the first boss from screwing up and survive without needing GCD heals. The rest was just the usual no-healer-needed theme park run.