Difficulty of Dungeons

[currentlemon]

The final dungeon of Shadowbringers is a step in the right direction when in comes to dungeon design for me. The bosses were great and their mechanics were wonderful, especially Bahamut, and the mobs were actually decent. I'm not going to lie, seeing Akh Morn surprised me, but it was exciting to see and it provided a heal check. Just wish the damage on that was higher.

[Aiscence]

I think there's 3 big problem: dungeon philosophy, SE and people themselves.

1) The dungeon philosophy because even if they are making them more "varied", nothing punishes you, so you don't learn. Look at how many people at lvl 80 still not having any idea what to do with a stack. Most bosses actually work the same way, and I think that's why people find them bland? i'll do the rundown a bit lower.
2) SE because they could provide an in game encyclopedia with the most common markers (stack, eartshakers, red marker, tethers), a basic rundown of the mechanics of each dungeon after clearing them (like wow did) or even basic role/job guide, as they are doing it as a paper guide they sell anyway. On top of that, because you can be banned for just guiding someone if they get pissy, that doesnt really motivate anyone.
3) And the players, because they don't want to put effort in a game? (you don't pay my sub syndrom)

It's sad because every dungeon is basically: Aoe every 30/60 seconds, followed by a tankbuster nearly 10 seconds later or inverted. And people legit find that hard to heal. After that it's basically a mechanic, very casually shown, then the aoe, the tb then back to the mechanic but "with a bonus" and that's it. And they do the same in raids, look at the latest nier raid, second boss, kefka syndrom: they show the left/rigth mechanic, then they show something that makes it a twist, but if you use basic logic you can guess very easily that it's probably the opposite?

I just can't understand how people can find the actual dungeon design to be hard after you understand that?

[Mahoukenshi]

I think there's 3 big problem: dungeon philosophy, SE and people themselves.

1) The dungeon philosophy because even if they are making them more "varied", nothing punishes you, so you don't learn. Look at how many people at lvl 80 still not having any idea what to do with a stack. Most bosses actually work the same way, and I think that's why people find them bland? i'll do the rundown a bit lower.
2) SE because they could provide an in game encyclopedia with the most common markers (stack, eartshakers, red marker, tethers), a basic rundown of the mechanics of each dungeon after clearing them (like wow did) or even basic role/job guide, as they are doing it as a paper guide they sell anyway. On top of that, because you can be banned for just guiding someone if they get pissy, that doesnt really motivate anyone.
3) And the players, because they don't want to put effort in a game? (you don't pay my sub syndrom)

It's sad because every dungeon is basically: Aoe every 30/60 seconds, followed by a tankbuster nearly 10 seconds later or inverted. And people legit find that hard to heal. After that it's basically a mechanic, very casually shown, then the aoe, the tb then back to the mechanic but "with a bonus" and that's it. And they do the same in raids, look at the latest nier raid, second boss, kefka syndrom: they show the left/rigth mechanic, then they show something that makes it a twist, but if you use basic logic you can guess very easily that it's probably the opposite?

I just can't understand how people can find the actual dungeon design to be hard after you understand that?

Even though I couldn't care less about it, I can't understand how someone can't understand that people can find someting "hard" which they perceive as "faceroll easy lololol". This depends partly if you run the same dungeon(s) more than once and/or get "surprised" (for lack of a better word) if it suddenly shows up in roulettes. Maybe they suck but don't care, maybe they suck and geniunely try, maybe they just wand to be carried, maybe it's just you being super awesome?

[ItMe]

For what it's worth I found the newest duty (Paglyh'an) a good step in the right direction.

[iVolke]

For what it's worth I found the newest duty (Paglyh'an) a good step in the right direction.

I didn't. It was just as easy as Matoya's Relict. The 2nd boss is literally just trash and Lunar Bahamut had so much build up for him to literally be nothing. I did it yesterday, I honestly don't even remember the 1st boss.

[Anhra]

I didn't. It was just as easy as Matoya's Relict. The 2nd boss is literally just trash and Lunar Bahamut had so much build up for him to literally be nothing. I did it yesterday, I honestly don't even remember the 1st boss.

Paglth'an feels more like a promotional Event for Prestinien, rather than a proper Dungeon. I wouldn't be suprised if even a Red Mage alone could cover all the healing needed in that Dungeon, since a Conjurer is more than capable of clearing any Dungeon, including Paglth'an, at this Point (added said info into the OP).

[Vyrerus]

Paglth'an feels more like a promotional Event for Prestinien, rather than a proper Dungeon. I wouldn't be suprised if even a Red Mage alone could cover all the healing needed in that Dungeon, since a Conjurer is more than capable of clearing any Dungeon, including Paglth'an, at this Point (added said info into the OP).

No healer is needed in Paglth'an, nor in any dungeon. With a 3rd DPS or even with just a healer DCing, dungeons are easy enough that with proper play you can beat them without healers.

[Liam_Harper]

For what it's worth I found the newest duty (Paglyh'an) a good step in the right direction.

Wasn't my experience sadly. As healer I just stood in all the mob aoe for more cast uptime because Asylum and Assize outhealed it. I also learned you can take 3 stacks of the lightning debuff from the first boss from screwing up and survive without needing GCD heals. The rest was just the usual no-healer-needed theme park run.

[LariaKirin]

I think the state of dungeons is pretty widely accepted at this point. It doesn't help that difficulty is dead on arrival because we are significantly overgeared for the content on release (Extreme trials have the same problem).

I'd rather we get something like WoW's Mythic+. Though, alot of the difficulty there is on trash pulls and our trash pull combat mechanics are too simplistic for that. So instead, tinker with the difficulty in a way we're good at. Just some 5 min ideas: periodic stack markers from start to end, randomized and faster mechanics, layer mechanics that weren't in the boss fight before, etc. I'm sure having more time to think about it would produce some better ideas.

This opens a can of worms, but we desperately need content with a scaling system so that the gear we get is not completely worthless in odd patches where there is no Ultimate. Which, at this point, looks to be 2/3 of the expansion.