Difficulty of Dungeons

[catofsnake]

Ive been hearing this excuse alot and I dont understand the logic what so ever. This is a mmo ,we should be behind change for the better not stagnate into a monotonous pile of mush. Whenever anyone says they want pve content to never change have the worst attitude. We should be open for dungeons to evolve because even with 1 per patch they have the ability to be good which they are not. I shouldnt be more scared to run certain 50s dungeons and run 80s roulette and essentially go on low power mode due to how samey and mindless it is

yesssss, please. the content that most people are going to be doing the most to level, etc. should be more fun/complex, shouldn't it? dungeons should get more difficult per expac, starting with HW and even the later bits of ARR. by heavensward you'd have already done 50 levels worth of dungeons by that time, you should be able to take it up a notch and handle harder things.

[Mahoukenshi]

Ive been hearing this excuse alot and I dont understand the logic what so ever. This is a mmo ,we should be behind change for the better not stagnate into a monotonous pile of mush. Whenever anyone says they want pve content to never change have the worst attitude. We should be open for dungeons to evolve because even with 1 per patch they have the ability to be good which they are not. I shouldnt be more scared to run certain 50s dungeons and run 80s roulette and essentially go on low power mode due to how samey and mindless it is

This is not about "worst attitude", dude. You project it into others. You have simply a different opinion. When I run roulettes, I'm ususally more "scared" of getting a Stormblood-Shadowbringers dungeon because boss mechanics have become more and more obnoxious at that point. Most bored long-term players can't even fathom this train of thoughts because they've run the same dungeons so many times that everything's memorized and saved in muscle-memory, but this doesn't necessarily apply to story players who run - outside of roulettes - most dungeons once and be done with it. And believe it or not some people genuinely struggle with the "harder" dungeons, despite this topics "lololol braindead easy lololol" consensus. Maybe the main issues lies between FFXIV's choreography design of obnoxious mechanics. So think holistic and not "game is eazy brainded lolz, make it harder." Try at least to offer something meaningful.

[catofsnake]

This is not about "worst attitude", dude. You project it into others. You have simply a different opinion. When I run roulettes, I'm ususally more "scared" of getting a Stormblood-Shadowbringers dungeon because boss mechanics have become more and more obnoxious at that point. Most bored long-term players can't even fathom this train of thoughts because they've run the same dungeons so many times that everything's memorized and saved in muscle-memory, but this doesn't necessarily apply to story players who run - outside of roulettes - most dungeons once and be done with it. And believe it or not some people genuinely struggle with the "harder" dungeons, despite this topics "lololol braindead easy lololol" consensus. Maybe the main issues lies between FFXIV's choreography design of obnoxious mechanics. So think holistic and not "game is eazy brainded lolz, make it harder." Try at least to offer something meaningful.

interesting. and here I liked stormblood onwards dungeon bosses for having more things going on. What parts are 'obnoxious' for you? I found most boss mechanics to be pretty straightforwards and 'readable' after seeing them once. It's fine to die or wipe once or twice and see a new mechanic in the process, imo. Feels better than brainlessly pressing a pared down rotation while hitting an ARR boss.

[ReynTime]

So think holistic and not "game is eazy brainded lolz, make it harder." Try at least to offer something meaningful.

What for? So you and others who only accept roulette content when it can be Netflixed through can brush it off because it would make your runs take longer? Because I see this pattern everywhere in this forum and reddit.
Suggestions or complaints about how content is designed are never welcome by the community, unless it's glamour or housing related. Until the moment Yoshida himself says otherwise.

[ForteNightshade]

This is not about "worst attitude", dude. You project it into others. You have simply a different opinion. When I run roulettes, I'm ususally more "scared" of getting a Stormblood-Shadowbringers dungeon because boss mechanics have become more and more obnoxious at that point. Most bored long-term players can't even fathom this train of thoughts because they've run the same dungeons so many times that everything's memorized and saved in muscle-memory, but this doesn't necessarily apply to story players who run - outside of roulettes - most dungeons once and be done with it. And believe it or not some people genuinely struggle with the "harder" dungeons, despite this topics "lololol braindead easy lololol" consensus. Maybe the main issues lies between FFXIV's choreography design of obnoxious mechanics. So think holistic and not "game is eazy brainded lolz, make it harder." Try at least to offer something meaningful.

Except... many of us took this same approach when Shadowbringers came out. By Qitana, I wall pulled everything because I just did two dungeons where mobs, like usually, simply didn't hurt enough. Actually, I started pulling double pretty much after the first set of Holminister, and was only mildly hesitant in Don Mheg because Happy's Media Tour video made it clear the damage output was supposedly higher. Yoshida even claimed that to be the case. I have no idea what criteria he used or if he straight up lied because none of the Shadowbringers dungeon are any more spicier than before.

I'm sorry, but if you're "struggling" with a dungeon at 71+, you really should go back to earlier dungeon and learn your job better. There is no excuse to have little to no understanding how the core aspect of your job function. And I don't even mean this in the context of big pulls but basic things like not knowing how Nastrond works. It's attitudes like that lead to the issues we've had all expansion with jobs like Healers, where even players who never step foot into Savage are complaining how bored they are. The devs keep focusing on players who spam Cure I or don't know how to maintain a buff like Heavy Thrust. Now that Trusts are a thing, there really any reason for "story only" players to even touch DF. If you have little interest playing your selected job at a decent level, just queue up with Trusts. Your experience will likely be far better than going into DF and getting a tank who's going to wall pull and scare the hell out of you as a healer.

[currentlemon]

snip

Agreed. There isn't any need to dumb down the game, especially when dungeon design is getting a bit stale. Sometimes, having an easy game does not equal fun. The more complexity the game has, the better. And besides, if you are doing level 60+ dungeons at this time, there is no excuse. You should know the mechanics of your chosen job by now.

[Rilifane]

This is not about "worst attitude", dude. You project it into others. You have simply a different opinion. When I run roulettes, I'm ususally more "scared" of getting a Stormblood-Shadowbringers dungeon because boss mechanics have become more and more obnoxious at that point. Most bored long-term players can't even fathom this train of thoughts because they've run the same dungeons so many times that everything's memorized and saved in muscle-memory, but this doesn't necessarily apply to story players who run - outside of roulettes - most dungeons once and be done with it. And believe it or not some people genuinely struggle with the "harder" dungeons, despite this topics "lololol braindead easy lololol" consensus. Maybe the main issues lies between FFXIV's choreography design of obnoxious mechanics. So think holistic and not "game is eazy brainded lolz, make it harder." Try at least to offer something meaningful.

At one point we've all been the first timer that didn't know mechanics and either had to follow the group (given that they knew what to do in the first place) or figure it out on the fly if we didn't do it with trusts. I did all the ShB dungeons blind and via DF, usually with the whole group going "first time" and "same" x3 and before I even touched endgame content so I definitely didn't have the general understanding for mechanics and how to recognize them quickly nor had I any mechanic memorised or spoiled by guides.
Still, a boss raising one hand with something like "Left-side knockout" is kind of a pointer that maybe I shouldn't stand right under said hand. Or numbers over your head appearing might mean something is going off on all party members in a certain order... maybe let's not stack, then? None of the mechanics straight up one shots you. They hurt, but you survive and know that whereever you stood was clearly a danger zone. They telegraphed the attacks shortly before going off in ShB but the timing is reasonable enough that if you didn't completely tunnel on buttons and had a general idea where it might be safe, it's enough time to make small adjustments.
I know how it feels to be a blind first timer.
I also know how it's entirely possible to figure out mechanics without guides or a very in-depth understanding of the game. And if someone has a "I have no memories of this place" moment and repeatedly screws something up, they die, get ressed and continue. Not the end of the world. Dungeons don't need a "no death" guarantee. I definitely don't remember mechanics from the lv 70 dungeons because I did each dungeon only once to get to ShB and that was it. If I guess wrong on a mechanic, I get a vuln up and at worst, I die after some fails.

[ReynTime]

At one point we've all been the first timer that didn't know mechanics and either had to follow the group (given that they knew what to do in the first place) or figure it out on the fly if we didn't do it with trusts. I did all the ShB dungeons blind and via DF, usually with the whole group going "first time" and "same" x3 and before I even touched endgame content so I definitely didn't have the general understanding for mechanics and how to recognize them quickly nor had I any mechanic memorised or spoiled by guides.
Still, a boss raising one hand with something like "Left-side knockout" is kind of a pointer that maybe I shouldn't stand right under said hand. Or numbers over your head appearing might mean something is going off on all party members in a certain order... maybe let's not stack, then? None of the mechanics straight up one shots you. They hurt, but you survive and know that whereever you stood was clearly a danger zone. They telegraphed the attacks shortly before going off in ShB but the timing is reasonable enough that if you didn't completely tunnel on buttons and had a general idea where it might be safe, it's enough time to make small adjustments.
I know how it feels to be a blind first timer.
I also know how it's entirely possible to figure out mechanics without guides or a very in-depth understanding of the game. And if someone has a "I have no memories of this place" moment and repeatedly screws something up, they die, get ressed and continue. Not the end of the world. Dungeons don't need a "no death" guarantee. I definitely don't remember mechanics from the lv 70 dungeons because I did each dungeon only once to get to ShB and that was it. If I guess wrong on a mechanic, I get a vuln up and at worst, I die after some fails.

On top of all of this, Trusts exist. They're slow to kill but they never get mechanics wrong, which is why they're useful for learning. So the fear for Lv70+ dungeons is very pointless.

[Jirah]

Snip.

"story players that run it once" Even in that context you should already be aware of half the mechanics being at 80. Im aware of story players but this is one persons take and Im confident I can find many people sick of the same mind numbing dungeons being generally far to safe as "endgame dungeons" disregarding the casual tag.

Also There's always trusts for people like that so there you go, and I hate to break it to you but I think your in the minority on thinking the current dungeons are "too hard" this is the first time hearing this actually since the whole Aurum vale thing before the unfortunate nerfs. Trusts help for those that are only selectively play the game and shouldn't cater to that amount of casualization any further as seen by these topics propping up so often and the content as a whole.

[VictorTheed]

Ive been hearing this excuse alot and I dont understand the logic what so ever. This is a mmo ,we should be behind change for the better not stagnate into a monotonous pile of mush. Whenever anyone says they want pve content to never change have the worst attitude. We should be open for dungeons to evolve because even with 1 per patch they have the ability to be good which they are not. I shouldnt be more scared to run certain 50s dungeons and run 80s roulette and essentially go on low power mode due to how samey and mindless it is

You're wrong, it's not an excuse, it's my opinion and I don't apologize for what I enjoy, the dungeons have evolved visually and musically since arr dungeons like copper bell or wanderers palace, just not the way u want them to, and I have this opinion cause I am happy with the current dungeons, I don't have to join the bandwagon and say harder dungeons bla bla bla, that's what ex and savage content is for.

I'm also more scared to run the lower level dungeons, they sink me down and take a lot my kit away.