Difficulty of Dungeons

[Iscah]

Did they say how big that is, because that's not any of the reasons I heard them give about it. It also doesn't make sense within the context of modern computing either. There's also the fact that they've been letting us do hundreds of thousands of damage since Eureka in Stormblood, and now with Blue Mage and Basic Instinct.

It doesn't matter whether the limit is hundreds of thousands or just hundreds, at some point there is a limit and they're in danger of hitting it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_overflow

Simply put, as a concept, if the maximum it can handle is 999,999,999 and you make it do something that adds to 1,000,000,005 it has nowhere to put that additional 1 and it does not compute. Your damage is now 5.

I'm pretty sure they talked about something that would line up with this issue when they were first announcing their plans for the stat squish.

[Vyrerus]

It doesn't matter whether the limit is hundreds of thousands or just hundreds, at some point there is a limit and they're in danger of hitting it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_overflow

Simply put, as a concept, if the maximum it can handle is 999,999,999 and you make it do something that adds to 1,000,000,005 it has nowhere to put that additional 1 and it does not compute. Your damage is now 5.

I'm pretty sure they talked about something that would line up with this issue when they were first announcing their plans for the stat squish.

I know what an overflow error is, thanks. They're really common in old games, and in breaking old games to do funny things. A relevant FF example is using multiple buffs with Hero's Drinks and things in FFVII to create an ATP overflow error, which has the damage of an attack display in the broken integer in text rather than numeral, causing things like one shotting the Emerald Weapon.

All I remember them saying when they announced the stat squish was that damage numbers were getting ridiculous, and that they didn't want to start truncating the damage values to make the screen look nicer. You know, dropping every number after a certain point and putting thinks like, 1.2m damage or 1200k damage and stuff. They want to have an orderly looking game, rather than inflated values.

Look at the concept, "Saturation Arithmetic" in your own link. That's what the game currently does to handle maximum or minimum damage values. In Eureka when you use the Limit Break against a minimum level monster when you are maximum level for a zone, the LB2 will deal 999,999 damage. Mathematically given the damage calculations going on in there, it should be able to go higher, but it can't.

The reason they want to implement the stat squish is so that this limit becomes less apparent. Currently at i510+ our melee limit break 3s in normal content are doing upwards of 770,000 or so damage. Realistically in the 90 cap era this means the LB3s would shoot up to that maximum of 999,999 damage. Even the ranged or caster ones may, meaning that limit would become readily apparent, and melee LB would lose its advantage. They then also have to contend with individual DPS being so high that the DPS LBs might lose their advantage altogether. The squish pushes us away from that limit, allowing them to leave their calculations and things largely unaltered, reusing them.

This also means they don't even have to double check every ability that does damage in the game, and then ensure that it has the cap criteria on it.

They also talked about boss HP values being overly ridiculous. If there's any concern for an overflow error, it would be the type caused by boss HP, but we don't have the means to overflow boss HP, since we aren't allowed to heal bosses. So that too is just something they're worried for, for their end, not ours.

[Vyrerus]

Actually, what about that ‘shield meme’? I think I saw a snip of a youtube video: a SoS (Extreme) run where they were trying to mitigate with massive amount of shields & tank LB3. But one of them ended up getting ‘too much shield’ and breaking the game. This player died alone instead from the raidwide.

I’m not sure if the ‘too much shield, it breaks the game’ is credible enough, though

Not really aware of any meme involving that fight. If anything it sounds like too many raid wide buffs going off simultaneously, causing the game's priority system to give that one person the Tank LB3 last and the shields first. You need the Tank LB3 to live more than the shields. So it's the server response to buffs, rather than an overflow error or a saturation error.

[Rilifane]

Actually, what about that ‘shield meme’? I think I saw a snip of a youtube video: a SoS (Extreme) run where they were trying to mitigate with massive amount of shields & tank LB3. But one of them ended up getting ‘too much shield’ and breaking the game. This player died alone instead from the raidwide.

I’m not sure if the ‘too much shield, it breaks the game’ is credible enough, though

Everything in FFXIV goes out in a spiraling motion, not simultaneously, from the source (or centre of the skill itself like Star, Katon etc) with a noticable delay between the first and the last person getting it. Even if it's only a single buff (e.g. Divination), the delay is quite notiable for the bare eye to the point I often thought I didn't catch a buff when instead it was only applied later because of proximity,
It makes for some funny situations like killing a boss while enrage damage going out and killing the closest 3 people only. In case of shields and buffs the delay was most likely amplified by the amount of buffs and since the source for LB3 and healer shields were probably at different positions, there was one unlucky player that was e.g. 2nd for shields from proximity but last for tank LB3 from proximity.
With the game never applying buffs at the exact same time (noticable on Dancer Tech, one buffs comes slightly later than the other), I doubt it was a case of "too much shields breaking the game" aswell. The game simply had a huge list of debuffs to apply to everyone in correct order depending on their proxmity to the source and naturally some got delayed. But the system itself was still working correctly.

[ReynTime]

I know they will never do this, but to me the dungeons designed to be part of roulettes are never going to be harder since a lot of players who don't care for challenge just run them as a chore and therefore the game needs a SEPARATE dungeon type designed to be cleared with a fixed/pre-made party.

My dream would be if they added dungeons like that across different levels before the "endgame" as well, like, say, you do "Shposhae", an ilvl 25 dungeon that requires 4-8 players and in addition to some mats and minion you also get leveling gear that lasts your low level alt job all the way to 49 or something.
I don't think this game should keep saving the "real" pvm content for after a new player spent 100+ hours getting used to complete faceroll and not being asked to put effort into understanding how to play their jobs.

[Jirah]

I know they will never do this, but to me the dungeons designed to be part of roulettes are never going to be harder since a lot of players who don't care for challenge just run them as a chore and therefore the game needs a SEPARATE dungeon type designed to be cleared with a fixed/pre-made party.

My dream would be if they added dungeons like that across different levels before the "endgame" as well, like, say, you do "Shposhae", an ilvl 25 dungeon that requires 4-8 players and in addition to some mats and minion you also get leveling gear that lasts your low level alt job all the way to 49 or something.
I don't think this game should keep saving the "real" pvm content for after a new player spent 100+ hours getting used to complete faceroll and not being asked to put effort into understanding how to play their jobs.

since we didnt get a deep dungeon this expansion the game needs somthing for 4 man and if its too hard than do a 8 man as not even raids feel tickle my explorative need to physically raid somthing that isnt a platform

[Kuroka]

With the game never applying buffs at the exact same time (noticable on Dancer Tech, one buffs comes slightly later than the other), I doubt it was a case of "too much shields breaking the game" aswell. The game simply had a huge list of debuffs to apply to everyone in correct order depending on their proxmity to the source and naturally some got delayed. But the system itself was still working correctly.

I recall in Baldesions Arsenal, when we could actually save the healers from the doom effect of the ress logos by overbuffing them with literally everything there is lol

[VictorTheed]

I like dungeons the way they are now, visually and musically amazing, the difficulty is fine cause their meant to be ran a lot so I don't want my roulette taking forever.

The thing I wish they'd do is give us more then 2 dungeons for expert roulette.

[Jirah]

I like dungeons the way they are now, visually and musically amazing, the difficulty is fine cause their meant to be ran a lot so I don't want my roulette taking forever.

The thing I wish they'd do is give us more then 2 dungeons for expert roulette.

Ive been hearing this excuse alot and I dont understand the logic what so ever. This is a mmo ,we should be behind change for the better not stagnate into a monotonous pile of mush. Whenever anyone says they want pve content to never change have the worst attitude. We should be open for dungeons to evolve because even with 1 per patch they have the ability to be good which they are not. I shouldnt be more scared to run certain 50s dungeons and run 80s roulette and essentially go on low power mode due to how samey and mindless it is

[catofsnake]

Ive been hearing this excuse alot and I dont understand the logic what so ever. This is a mmo ,we should be behind change for the better not stagnate into a monotonous pile of mush. Whenever anyone says they want pve content to never change have the worst attitude. We should be open for dungeons to evolve because even with 1 per patch they have the ability to be good which they are not. I shouldnt be more scared to run certain 50s dungeons and run 80s roulette and essentially go on low power mode due to how samey and mindless it is

yesssss, please. the content that most people are going to be doing the most to level, etc. should be more fun/complex, shouldn't it? dungeons should get more difficult per expac, starting with HW and even the later bits of ARR. by heavensward you'd have already done 50 levels worth of dungeons by that time, you should be able to take it up a notch and handle harder things.