Difficulty of Dungeons

[Jirah]

Unfortunately, the playerbase decided a long time ago that they don't want a modicum of challenge in their dungeons. When Pharos Sirius first came out, 3 out of 4 of its bosses were deemed to be more difficult than Ifrit Hard Mode and Garuda Hard Mode by the playerbase.

The response was basically, whenever you queued into it for your... was it still expert back then? I think it was just high level roulette. Anyway, you queue in, and instantly people would leave. It really wasn't that bad of a dungeon, because even prior to its nerfs, you could roll in there with 3 DPS and a Healer and clear it just fine(though Siren was a bit rough).

It had all of the stuff you're asking for. Faster, non-telegraphed attacks. Dangerous adds. The necessity for paced interrupts. Unique, never before seen debuffs(some of which have never been reused). Dangerous problem monsters in trash. Even got in on a little interactive dungeoneering with the two valves you have to close to access the third boss (granted they are just on the train track going up to it).

If they implement your changes, then they have to create new dungeons and a new roulette entirely(or keep said dungeons out of the roulette). For every person like you(and me) that they satisfy by making more engaging/challenging standard content, twenty more will shriek that the game shouldn't be that demanding. Shriek that their time isn't being respected. Shriek that it should get a brutal label and be its own vein of content. It's sad, but the more the game is brought to the mainstream, the less challenging all of its standard content will be.

Also the stat squish in 6.0 is not for the player's benefit. It is for the dev team's, so that they can reuse old calculations for balancing purposes. /shrug

i swear ive seen word for word the same response in another post, may i have a link to these complaints?

also pharos is 100% skippable u dont need it to continue on, also games aiming for the broadest appeal is a massive mistake you will never please everyone for every dungoen like relict with laughable bad adds and mediocre difficulty for 1 that enjoyed it twenty will roll there eyes at another bore to do rouletes in. same can be said there as most people who liked relict the best they can say is "its quick" Its pretty" Its music is nice" superficial stuff. Relict is 80 and Pharos is 50 and to this day pharos is more fun. Yall either reach for Cape westwind or savage we need middle ground!

[Vyrerus]

i swear ive seen word for word the same response in another post, may i have a link to these complaints?

Just go diving into forum posts from early 2014, if they're still around. You'll see this sort of post echoed every time this is brought up, because it's brought up a lot, and the situation's not going to change. Pharos Sirius came out, the people on these forums at the time issued a mass outcry about its difficulty, and it got nerfed a couple of months later, just prior to Tomes of Philosophy being nixed.

At the time, Pharos Sirius was part of the high end roulette for weekly capped tomes. It was harder back then. If you think it's still more fun, in spite of being a 9 minute roflstomp... I don't know what to tell you.

[Jirah]

Just go diving into forum posts from early 2014, if they're still around. You'll see this sort of post echoed every time this is brought up, because it's brought up a lot, and the situation's not going to change. Pharos Sirius came out, the people on these forums at the time issued a mass outcry about its difficulty, and it got nerfed a couple of months later, just prior to Tomes of Philosophy being nixed.

At the time, Pharos Sirius was part of the high end roulette for weekly capped tomes. It was harder back then. If you think it's still more fun, in spite of being a 9 minute roflstomp... I don't know what to tell you.

if u think the alternative to not even attempt to test the players skill in the only 4 man content in ShB, having less of them than in ARR, thats whatever. idk and idc if it was too hard
thats in the past, dungeons should at the very least be interesting to play having less means itll be harder to make a good one to not bore people and they completely flooped on that by disregarding any engagement with the bosses starting to wane and become repetitive. it would do the game zero damage to make them even slightly more unque disregarding the past

[Payadopa]

I regularly run min ilvl stuff with my mates and is the most fun I have with dungeons.
I don't care about the rewards as long as I have a good time which seems to be an alien concept to your typical MMO player.

I wish we had a DF min ilvl. Would be optional like MSQ roulette and certainly more fun.

[Jirah]

I regularly run min ilvl stuff with my mates and is the most fun I have with dungeons.
I don't care about the rewards as long as I have a good time which seems to be an alien concept to your typical MMO player.

I wish we had a DF min ilvl. Would be optional like MSQ roulette and certainly more fun.

this solves the the undertune issue but doesnt solve the boring trash and linear design being crippled by roadblocks and generally bland and thats just Relict most 80s have similar issues asside from very specific examples like Aumurot or that one trash donut mob in Twinning

[Anhra]

Bring "permadeath" to 14, if not to lose your char by dificulty, a wipe could let you log in only in next week. or make you lose all your items, broke all your armor....i dont know.
Or may happen what happened to wow, players sugest something harder, and in the week of patch launch would be so hard that make all hardcore players stop playing. I give one week to see players disband new content.

I think the only way a feature similar to "permadeath" would be to have things run in a similar way how Monster Hunter handles "dying". If Party Members die a set amount of times, it could be considered a Wipe and the Party gets forced to leave the Dungeon (dying once or twice could also impact maybe things like Monsters becoming more aggressive and do even more damage or/and certain Loot gets denied, if you want to have even more spice). They did that with Rathalos EX which i personally think, is so far Squeenix best designed Trial, but back on the matter at hand, it is that type of content some People would only run, if they gained something worthy out of it.

[catofsnake]

Please. the content that the average player will be in for the most amount of time throughout the game should be at least worth some thought. more/harder mechanics, more threatening unavoidable damage, etc. at least *something* to make it more enjoyable or thought required.

[Iscah]

Also the stat squish in 6.0 is not for the player's benefit. It is for the dev team's, so that they can reuse old calculations for balancing purposes. /shrug

The stat squish is so that numbers don't get so big they literally break the program's ability to handle them.

[Vyrerus]

The stat squish is so that numbers don't get so big they literally break the program's ability to handle them.

Did they say how big that is, because that's not any of the reasons I heard them give about it. It also doesn't make sense within the context of modern computing either. There's also the fact that they've been letting us do hundreds of thousands of damage since Eureka in Stormblood, and now with Blue Mage and Basic Instinct.

Either way, it's for their benefit, not ours.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Did they say how big that is, because that's not any of the reasons I heard them give about it. It also doesn't make sense within the context of modern computing either. There's also the fact that they've been letting us do hundreds of thousands of damage since Eureka in Stormblood, and now with Blue Mage and Basic Instinct.

Either way, it's for their benefit, not ours.

Actually, what about that ‘shield meme’? I think I saw a snip of a youtube video: a SoS (Extreme) run where they were trying to mitigate with massive amount of shields & tank LB3. But one of them ended up getting ‘too much shield’ and breaking the game. This player died alone instead from the raidwide.

I’m not sure if the ‘too much shield, it breaks the game’ is credible enough, though