Difficulty of Dungeons

[NYCLouisGamer]

dungeons are supposed to be get in, get out though. I don't want to be spending upwards of 45 minutes in one.

The dungeons don't need to be long. They simply need to be more challenging. The reward for doing them well will be a speedy run.

If it is already determined that leveling dungeons will not be fun content, we don't need them as in-game chores. Just have the game automatically mail me gear when I ding. How can FFXIV have so many beautifully-designed classes and no lowbie content where I can use them? It is like having a sportscar that is not allowed to go above 40 mph, shift gears or make turns.

[MrThinker]

It reminds me of the hard versions of some dungeons we had regularly some time ago... I think it was one of best ideas they had because not only it was a more difficult content but they tied it with more story and lore about the place and so on. It's too bad that they didn't continue doing them...

Part of the reason they could do that back then was a different design philosophy in dungeons, where they made large areas and then programmed one or two routes that would be used in the actual instance. This left other routes and areas that could be utilised in hard modes.

The newer dungeons, as far as we are told, don't have those pre-existing unused areas in exchange for that cinematic feel, so making hard modes of those would require actually making entirely new dungeon assets, rather than redesigning existing ones.

[Anhra]

dungeons are supposed to be get in, get out though. I don't want to be spending upwards of 45 minutes in one.

The average clear time of any Dungeon run is 12-15 Minutes if you run with a balanced Party. Even if my ideas we're all inplimented into the game, they would increase that Time maybe by 5-10 Minutes at best, provided we still get the same Marathon Track with 3 Bosses.

And how much time you end up spending in there, depends completely on you and your team. And if Dungeons are such a bother for you, that you aren't prepared to spent in there more time than it is sometimes necessary, you should evaluate a little about your personal priorities in a video game and what makes it fun.

[DrWho2010]

dungeons are fun the first few times sure. after that, when it gets into the hundreds of times, you value efficiency more than fun. of course this is also dependent on how long one has been playing the game.

[Anhra]

dungeons are fun the first few times sure. after that, when it gets into the hundreds of times, you value efficiency more than fun. of course this is also dependent on how long one has been playing the game.

Yet something like that shouldn't be a excuse to get lazy with the design of things. I am not asking for Rocketscience here, i am merely suggesting to keep People on their Toes instead of every Dungeon being the same snoozefest over and over again.

Also keep in mind that even with changes like this, you can still figure things out on how to clear it asap, it just means that you need to start over figuring it out, with the possibility of maybe having to spent some extra minutes, which is but a small price to pay.

[SiriusSaltstice]

dungeons are fun the first few times sure. after that, when it gets into the hundreds of times, you value efficiency more than fun. of course this is also dependent on how long one has been playing the game.

They are literally the same thing over and over. How they are fun even the first few times is a stretch.

[Luin]

Why are leveling dungeons more difficult than "Expert" dungeons" ?

It isn't just aggressive ilvl sync, or a lack of complete toolkit. Minilvl standard light party in any 80 dungeon is still easier than a synced standard light party in most current expansion dungeons. Compare Dohn Mheg's first two pulls to Anyder's final triple pull. It's roughly the same damage, relative to level? But the issue is Dohn Mheg, and most of the "harder" leveling dungeons, like Holminster or Bardam, has two high damage pulls back-to-back. Anyder's triple isn't threatening because you have all of your cooldowns across your entire party. Your DPS even have resources from the boss saved.

For instance, in Bardam's Mettle. It's not a matter of going from start to the stone heads. That's possible. But if you do, and your party DPS isn't decent, you're going to be dead before you even finish pulling the next group.

This has been the trend since Swallows Compass in Stormblood and it's only more frustrating with how few dungeons we get. (BTW, why even rotate dungeons out of Expert roulette? I stopped doing mine because both dungeons are awful now)

Dungeon difficulty is easily adjusted by players in the dungeon by just pulling fewer mobs.

[Anhra]

Dungeon difficulty is easily adjusted by players in the dungeon by just pulling fewer mobs.

Not only that, and even if you just pull the smallest amount of Monsters, which is usually just a Group of 2-3, a Healer can technically disable one single target for up to 52 seconds with sleep before it becomes immune to it, provided noone slaps it awake beforehand.

During Matoyas Relict, i noticed that the single target tankbusters from any Boss there do arround 95-100% of a synced down DPS maximum HP, and since it is always followed with a small breakphase of a boss that lasts a few seconds, it is enough of a time window to actually make any DPS Job a tank, as long as you provide them with a shield before it happens and heal them up afterwards.

[SiriusSaltstice]

At that stage, if their intention is purely a chore to be done with as soon as possible for rewards, it's worth asking why even have dungeons at all? Sure it keeps players on the treadmill, but there are probably more cost-effective ways of doing the same, especially when it doesn't matter if it's fun or not. Perhaps one reason we lost a dungeon per patch, the Devs simply thought "what's the point of using resources on this?".

It doesn't help that they're stubbornly against Mythic+ and the "15 minute faceroll for tomes/exp" is the only format they'll consider. The fact they were happier simply deleting a dungeon every patch rather than even giving it a chance is just disappointing really.

Please look forward to when dungeons are no longer hallways and just circle arenas.

[currentlemon]

Yeah, the dungeons are lackluster in this expansion compared to the previous ones. A chuck of the level 80 dungeons aren't exactly memorable, though the levelling dungeons are pretty good. Still, the difficulty needs to be cranked up a bit and I wouldn't mind seeing seeing more than just two mob packs and a boss.

I think someone mentioned this in the DPS forums that a way dungeons could be revamped is by adding branching pathways. If the dungeon is cleared at a certain amount of time or if you do a successful pull and kill the trash mobs quickly, then an alternative path is given to the player where they face harder mobs and even a harder boss. This new boss has mechanics similar to that of 8 man raids/trails (non-Savage mind you) and an enrage timer. The rewards for taking this alternative path are better gear, mounts, gear for the sake of glamor, or perhaps crafting material to craft even stronger gear. I believed this was how it worked in the MMO SWTOR and I'm certain other MMOs have done the same.

Perhaps SE can learn from some of these MMOs and apply them in their own way in FFXIV. Maybe add a Phase 2 of the final dungeon boss if beaten quickly? That would be great! Or how about rewarding players for managing mass pulls by opening a branching path that leads to a harder second boss? The ideas are endless.