Fix Glamour Restrictions

[ItMe]

I think we are reading vastly different genres. lol

Hahaha~

I was curious and checked some dates:
Red Sojna has been around since 1934.
John Carter of Mars came out in 1912.
It's only been more ingrained in pop culture in (jesus christ) the last century.

they've given every role plate armor as of this point in Shadowbringers.

I am Boo-Boo the fool. Where's all this cleric plate armor I keep hearing about?

[GrizzlyTank]

I am Boo-Boo the fool. Where's all this cleric plate armor I keep hearing about?

The deepshadow set of Healing is a mail at least, and healer and tank also share the look of the 68 vendor gear.

Even then the hysteria of plate being "too heavy" for healers is completely arse as taken from wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armour "A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg (33–55 lb). The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armour was spread evenly throughout the body."

[ItMe]

The deepshadow set of Healing is a mail at least, and healer and tank also share the look of the 68 vendor gear.

Having mail underneath a bath robe is neat.
But def not going as far as people seem to say they go with enabling armored healers.
Also, the healer and tank do share the Gazelleskin stuff, but unfortunately this just means the tank got a bathrobe.

Even then the hysteria of plate being "too heavy" for healers is completely arse as taken from wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armour "A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg (33–55 lb). The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armour was spread evenly throughout the body."

It doesn't come from mail being too heavy, it stems from Chainmail (the precursor to D&D), where the clerics were hard coded as priests and thus were priestly vestments.
In modern D&D and other table tops clerics usually don whatever kind of armor they want, but back then you didn't really have character options. These were war sims before they were RPGs (in part because those didn't quite exist yet) so your character was as defined as a chess piece. Your healer was a priest and priests wore appropriate holy garments.

[Iscah]

Having mail underneath a bath robe is neat.
But def not going as far as people seem to say they go with enabling armored healers.
Also, the healer and tank do share the Gazelleskin stuff, but unfortunately this just means the tank got a bathrobe.

A robe is not inherently a bathrobe just because that's the only place you commonly encounter the term - and for that matter not everything that goes below waist length is a robe. The Gazelleskin coats are distinctly coats and I would never describe them as robes.

[Packetdancer]

I am Boo-Boo the fool. Where's all this cleric plate armor I keep hearing about?

Aside from the Deepshadow set already mentioned, there are also a number of unrestricted glamour item armors: the Ward Knight's set, the Legacy Warrior mail, Aymeric's outfit (for guys, at least), the Rathalos set (and the augmented variant), the Crystarium guard set...

[ItMe]

A robe is not inherently a bathrobe just because that's the only place you commonly encounter the term - and for that matter not everything that goes below waist length is a robe. The Gazelleskin coats are distinctly coats and I would never describe them as robes.

In my experience, robes very inclined to look like shapeless lumpy garbage when your body is shaped like a football.
Doesn't matter the cut or the style, my legs are so short that if it goes beneath the waits at all it can suddenly becomes very "bathrobe."
Though you're right, I'm also just being salty. I'm sorry for that.

Aside from the Deepshadow set already mentioned, there are also a number of unrestricted glamour item armors: the Ward Knight's set, the Legacy Warrior mail, Aymeric's outfit (for guys, at least), the Rathalos set (and the augmented variant), the Crystarium guard set...

Ooh, I see~
I've been looking pretty hard at healer pieces for plate mail and didn't even think to check the "all" sets.
Too bad the crystarium set is a jacket with pillions... and the rathalos set is a coat with no plate... and the rest are mogstation (though those are still valid options and I'll def be keeping my eye on them, thanks)

[Aniya_Estlihn]

My big issue with people —including Yoshida himself— who argue against glamour restrictions being removed, or the modern, casual stuff that's added is that this isn't D&D or a tabletop game, its a Final Fantasy title. A series which in recent memory functions as a melting pot of modern, futuristic and medieval tones and themes—you can't really "break" immersion with this stuff.

And going on a tangent here but— this rings especially true in a game like this where you can casually ride bosses you've defeated that stood as existential threats to you and the world mere patches before, teleport from a gothic snowbound high-fantasy city, into an ancient near-modern metropolis deep under the ocean of another bloody world, then to a massive floating technological hell-scape glowing like a neon-cyberpunk dystopia not too far away from the previous high-fantasy city, in the far reaches of the atmosphere within the span of a few minutes and suddenly draw the line at "I don't want my healers and casters wearing armor."

It's mind boggling to think how oblivious people must be to think that the any of this would be somehow immersion breaking when the game itself has shown time and again that its a theme park melting pot of fantasy ideas and themes thrown into one setting that somehow just works—especially with gear designs.

Yet, despite all these varied locales, themes and aesthetics that they sometimes mixup, mash together and flip on their heads, they pointlessly foist a loose visual identity onto every role through archaic gear restrictions when they themselves ignore these same restrictions for NPC design and often times cycle the gear between roles later on down the line anyway.

It's rather insulting to be forced into a set appearance but to then see them take the gear I'd like to use together from other roles and put it on an NPC that's seemingly my role. We're just tired of them ignoring their own restrictions, because if they recognize NPCs look more unique when they do it, there's no justification to not let players do the same.

At this point, I'm convinced the only reason is because they can't just retroactively change the system due to the fact there's no distinction in the glamour system between weapons and gear, so they'd have to go through and rework the system as a whole to keep weapons and AF gear locked to their respective jobs.

In fact, the last time this was asked Yoshida literally said the weapons were the issue so like, either he's oblivious and doesn't understand when people say gear they mean everything but weapons, or the system has no way to differentiate between weapons and gear. It sucks.

I understand combat AF gear; those are unique and iconic, but everything else is literally just generic fantasy armor designs that could very easily work together; and does as we can prove through the try on window, so the restrictions just make absolutely no sense anymore.

I am Boo-Boo the fool. Where's all this cleric plate armor I keep hearing about?

Not just plate armor, but they've not shied away from giving armor to everyone of late in varying capacities, examples—

Crystarium Guard's armor, the current PvP set has literal metal casings around the healer arms, Deepshadow, Rathalos Armor, the Genji Domaru armor from Deltascape, Lost Allagan (SB tome set) gives greaves and gauntlets befitting a tank to healers and casters both, Feast PvP armor sets are all class and several are actually comprised of armor, the entirety of the the Sky pirates sets were unlocked through Ishgard restoration phase 2 as all-class glamours, the sky rat sets as well the Ward Knights set on mogstation.

They are absolutely not against giving healers armor; some of which looks alarmingly heavy, and anyone who claims they are just isn't paying attention in the slightest.

[ItMe]

They are absolutely not against giving healers armor; some of which looks alarmingly heavy, and anyone who claims they are just isn't paying attention in the slightest.

Who is not paying attention?
Is it you?
No, apparently ItMe (ba-dum tish)

Thank you everyone for pointing me towards more armor-y healer pieces.

[Iscah]

At this point, I'm convinced the only reason is because they can't just retroactively change the system due to the fact there's no distinction in the glamour system between weapons and gear, so they'd have to go through and rework the system as a whole to keep weapons and AF gear locked to their respective jobs.

I am also fairly sure this is the case - and as I understand it, it's a cultural thing that they don't want to outright say no, so they make deflecting excuses as to why the restrictions don't need to be lifted instead of saying they can't.

So, if that's true, the restrictions aren't arbitrary. They're not being kept in place to prevent immersion-breaking, and they're not proven pointless just because you can glamour level 1 unrestricted outfits onto your gear. They can be broken by NPCs who aren't tied to player gear restrictions, because the rule against combining equipment types is practical rather than aesthetic. And none of this means that they could simply lift restrictions on role-based equipment if they wanted to, because the system simply isn't set up for it.

And for me, if the restrictions are in place because they can't remove them for practical reasons, that's okay. Intermittently disappointing, but okay. Sure it would be nicer if we got access to everything, and if they ever reworked the system, I'd welcome it - but I'm also happy to work within the restrictions we have. It can be a challenge to achieve certain looks within a certain class, but there's also a certain satisfaction to coming up with something unique.

I think the best we can hope for is the release of more replica gear.

[Gemina]

So, local man was goin' for the most ridiculous glam idea he could perceive, but turns out, the glamour system sucks and wouldn't allow it. Huh.

I think it's about time that level restriction be removed when glamming or in the glamour dresser. While we're at it, lets just remove the class restrictions as well. Seriously.

For the argument against needing visual clarity for classes? I have the icon on the party list. Do I need anything else?

Can I get a special mention to how immersion and whatever doesn't matter too? I can walk around with a turkey dinner on top of my head, wear some frog suit, some panties, and have a 2B Ass, so let's be for real.

Yoshi, pls

Identification to keep restrictions in place is as ridiculous of an argument as the presence of silly glamours being a reason why they should be removed. While there are valid reasons to have restrictions, there doesn't need to be because the devs can place restrictions as they see fit, for just about any reason they can cook up. Don't like it? Too bad.