Why do people save LB till the end of the fight?

[ReiMakoto]

That's fine. The point remains the same. There isn't any way any individual player can pump out the amount of damage Lbs do with the same amount of button presses and in the same amount of time. It's a massive boost to both personal and raid DPS. As far as I know anyway.

This is also not true (except for button presses but thats a rather bizzare metric to measure it by) , melee lb1 deals about 200k in 5.86 seconds, a Samurai doing their double midare burst (which takes about 4 seconds with weaving slots if we are counting time till they can gcd again) can do that amount in the same time easily, especially given that casting the LB cancels autos and you cant use ogcds during it either (and especially if they crit/have shoha/senei in that window as well), so LB should be delayed until after that paticular burst. Other classes may have similar scenarios.

[Gemina]

This is also not true (except for button presses but thats a rather bizzare metric to measure it by) , melee lb1 deals about 200k in 5.86 seconds, a Samurai doing their double midare burst (which takes about 4 seconds with weaving slots if we are counting time till they can gcd again) can do that amount in the same time easily, especially given that casting the LB cancels autos and you cant use ogcds during it either (and especially if they crit/have shoha/senei in that window as well), so LB should be delayed until after that paticular burst. Other classes may have similar scenarios.

How is that a bizarre metric? We're talking a single button press with LB in comparison to the myriad of presses that goes into an opener/burst phase, or enough skills to equal that damage. In terms of comparisons, I was thinking more along the lines of LB2; however, I have at least a handful of encounters where LB1 literally made the difference between a phase transition or a wipe. I can't think of any situation where an LB does not provide a beneficial boost to the player and party's DPS.

In the case of SAM, what you're neglecting to mention is that burst damage is not on demand. The SAM has to build up the resource to use Setsugekka, and Tsubame is on a 120s cooldown. LB is also a resource that has to be built up, but the situation we are dealing with here is an already full LB gauge. I also should mention on my SAM, my burst phase ends with my potion, so the entire rotation lasts around 30 seconds. I would need to do some math, but I believe I would need a third hard hitting Setsugekka to get close to or surpass the damage from Blade Dance during that window, but perhaps someone who has actually done the comparisons will come forward.

[Dogempire]

How is that a bizarre metric? We're talking a single button press with LB in comparison to the myriad of presses that goes into an opener/burst phase, or enough skills to equal that damage. In terms of comparisons, I was thinking more along the lines of LB2; however, I have at least a handful of encounters where LB1 literally made the difference between a phase transition or a wipe. I can't think of any situation where an LB does not provide a beneficial boost to the player and party's DPS.

In the case of SAM, what you're neglecting to mention is that burst damage is not on demand. The SAM has to build up the resource to use Setsugekka, and Tsubame is on a 120s cooldown. LB is also a resource that has to be built up, but the situation we are dealing with here is an already full LB gauge. I also should mention on my SAM, my burst phase ends with my potion, so the entire rotation lasts around 30 seconds. I would need to do some math, but I believe I would need a third hard hitting Setsugekka to get close to or surpass the damage from Blade Dance during that window, but perhaps someone who has actually done the comparisons will come forward.

Well the issue with LB2 is that outside of 8 man content you only get it for the last 2% of the final boss of the dungeon, which by that point might as well not use it since the difference in kill speed is abysmal, and LB1 is only really worth being used by ranged and caster jobs on pulls, except that normally tanks aren't in any danger of getting killed by the mobs they pulled so the extra damage isn't really needed.

[Cidel]

In a DF setting with 3-gauge Limit Breaks, I'd like to think people would save it until the end of the fight where it'll end or near-end the fight if a large fraction of the party displays their ineptitude at staying alive throughout the raid/fight on the off-chance something takes out half of the party; that way a healer can LB3 and salvage the fight.

Had a few parties of those types (mostly in 24-man raids), where a LB3 trigger-happy DPS used it to shave off a % or two of the boss' HP at like 20-something %, only for half or more of the party to derp to some mechanic and simultaneously die to it at some point afterwards, only to wish "they hadn't 'wasted' the LB3." Seen a healer save/ saved many a run with healer LB3s, but never seen a run saved by a DPS not waiting til the end to use it...

If using a DPS LB3 gave a damage buff to the whole party or something (like Squadrons), there'd be more of an argument to not sit on it.

[Gemina]

Maybe I'm remembering things wrong, but in MSQ Nero takes like 20 seconds to burn down and the LB takes maybe 5-10% of his health bar. If you do the math you're better off just pulling him immediately and beating on him instead of having the entire synced party sit there inactive for a few seconds to get off the LB.

The time I used is just an example. Whatever amount of time it takes to cut him down, caster LB2 will reduce it by around half that time. It's a very small thing to gripe about, I just hate seeing the LB gauge get siphoned away and Nero is not the only case this happens. Prae is a great place to inform new or unaware players about the LB gauge getting nuked if someone aggros the boss. Players who know this will be less likely to waste it in other encounters such as alliance raids where it can really help things along.

[KaijinRhada]

From what I experienced, I generally feel that in 4-mans, the LB is better used on mass-pulled trash since that makes up the bulk of the time you spend in an instance. Mileage may vary, but I often find that by the time you let it fill to LB2, the boss will be 5% of less, which I can DPS down faster. Not to say it only fills by 5%, but that's definitely a case where I will actively ignore it.

In DF 8-mans and 24-mans, I tend to feel that it depends on how the run is going. Usually it's fine, with only the odd occasion of thinking you're sure it's fine, but then people drop like flies. Or I just forget if I'm the only melee. :V

These are just my experiences. I'll have to take a look at the breakdown from that Google doc though! I do like to research on efficient gameplay, old habit from WoW.

[NanaWiloh]

Look KaijinRhada gets it. Kinda of funny how others don't. Its simpe in a DF 8 or 24 man run when LB3 comes up. You sit on your little trigger happy fingers until you sure things arent going to blow up. You could also just spend and hour or two reading posts in Tales from the duty finder if you still dont get why.

[Tlamila]

I love using caster LB on the last pull of Anamnesis, if queueing as dps...but then pug tanks nowadays never do the full pull and when I use it on just a pack it depresses me.

[TaleraRistain]

I think in dungeons we're just going too fast to really worry about it most of the time.

I see more use in 8 and 24 mans and usually near enough the end to make sure the healers don't need to pull the party back from the brink of death. I make a point if our party is doing well to tell the DPS to fire away when they want to so they know they don't have to reserve it for mine or co-healer's use.

[DarkZeroUnit]

its a single use execute 6150 pot and seeing that meteor land is so satisfying, but its only neat if it kills the boss