Positionals

[Fyce]

Well said opinion, but the thing is, i could take all your written stuff and put it in another point of view.

Of course it was just my opinion, just like your answer to me was yours. That's the reason why I started my post with "I don't like positionals." And sure, someone could oppose what I said with their own opinion. Which is exactly what you did. So what? If I don't like apples, you won't make me like them by saying that you do.

I absolutly don't think that positionals are as deep as you depict them. I also don't find jobs that don't need to move "boring". And I wouldn't call other game more "innovative" simply for being more action-focused. You seem to like the amount of unpredictability and added button press positionals give your job, while I clearly don't have the same feeling with this mechanic. You see welcome dynamism where I see an unrewarding chore.
It's just preferences, and trust me I wish I liked positionals like you do.

But preferences are the reason why you kinda became self aware when saying "Positionals might have the same effect once you got used to them, but you still do more and might adjust to tank missplays." ... because yeah, someone could very easily take all your arguments about procs, mudras and whatnot, and simply say that "positionals are also just simple button press". Your two following "buts..." can be easily debunked by saying that SAM and NIN don't do more positional than some proc focused jobs, and adjusting to tanks misplays is anecdotal. We're back to your first sentence, which also applies to you.

I already said that I'm fine for current melee jobs to keep their positionals because I don't want people like you to see what they enjoy go away. I though that was generous enough to be asking for the next melee DPS to break the mold so people like me who don't like positionals aren't completly hopeless to one day enjoy a melee DPS, no?

So, I don't really know what to do with your answer to be honest. At least -and even if it came a bit late- the "I can just speak for myself" is written in your post. But I don't get why you felt the need to "repeat it again and again" after reading mine. What made you answer me with your opinion yet again? Did you thought that repeating "positionals are fine and way deeper than any other "class-mechanics" again and again would make it more than just your opinion? Or that saying that first sentence, that my opinion can be opposed with another point of view, would also somehow make yours something else, more factual maybe? Doesn't really work like that.
Had you answered by sparkling a discussion about some points I made, well, fine. But it seems that you simply used my post as an excuse to state your opinion yet again. I'm sorry but I don't have much else to tell you. In these situations you just have to agree to disagree. No need to repeat yourself.

[LeonKeyh]

-snip-

The issue isn't necessarily that you stated your opinion. The issue is the original post here, and the same people in 2-3 other threads loudly declaring that they hate positionals and asking for them to be removed. There are people on the other side of the coin feeling the need to vehemently defend positionals so that a small joy of the melee DPS isn't stripped out because some people "don't like it." It's especially bad whenever the same people asking for positionals to be removed are saying that they make up less than 1% of total damage during a fight.

I'll admit, I'm pretty new to the game, coming up on 1 year in a couple of months, but it seems like the "high end" players are tired of seeing the skill ceiling continuously pulled down by people who seem like they "just don't feel like trying." The fact of the matter is that IF the math checks out and positionals make up less than 1% of total damage (those numbers are suspect, whenever I went through it seemed like it was more like 4%-8% with SAM on the low end and MNK on the high end, but I'll concede to <1% since I just looked at potencies and "guessed"), then people are asking to lower the skill ceiling a negligible amount.

The great news is, if you "don't feel like" doing positionals, it likely wouldn't matter much at all, especially in dungeons since most of that combat is going to be AE.

That's generally why people are so defensive about it. Positionals give something else to think of in what is ultimately a somewhat simple ability rotation for these classes. People (I) would be worried that removing positionals from melee classes would make melee classes unfulfilling like ranged physical classes.

People who play at a "high skill level" need something to strive for and positionals are a somewhat simple way to give them something to strive for while not punishing the lower skill level people. So, whenever people ask for them to be removed, people get defensive.

[IruruCece]

Sneak Attack used to be a front positional..... but I never used it. Especially on enemies with larger hit rings, it was more trouble than it was worth to move around to hit it.

Did you consider moving through the mob

[Ryd]

Or at the very, very least, if SE wants to go with positionals yet again, make them interact with the job in an interesting, meaningful and rewarding way. Not a +10 potency or +5 gauge crap.

It should be noted that positionals used to be this way - with all the nice effects on the 1-2-3 chains dependent on hitting whatever positional was attached - but too many players complained for so long that they eventually toned them down into more of a perk than something that you had to nail or your rotation fell apart.

[ItMe]

It should be noted that positionals used to be this way - with all the nice effects on the 1-2-3 chains dependent on hitting whatever positional was attached - but too many players complained for so long that they eventually toned them down into more of a perk than something that you had to nail or your rotation fell apart.

With so many bosses / mini-bosses that just turn to target whoever or launch a mechanic, I'm glad TBH.
Positionals are cool, but random shit fucking up your rotation is not.

[Ralph2449]

Or at the very, very least, if SE wants to go with positionals yet again, make them interact with the job in an interesting, meaningful and rewarding way. Not a +10 potency or +5 gauge crap.

Disagree there, I think SE has reached the perfect balance in terms of positionals exactly because they arent a huge thing

So if you screw them up it isnt a big deal, the world didnt end and you ll still beat the encounter as long as everything else was done decently, this includes the many times you might miss them due to some form of mechanic targeting you. (Which you just know would be the go to excuse if dps was not enough if positionals were a huge thing)

It is a small thing that you can try maximize and improve, this means it is less about tryhard dps increase obsession some have(And would force onto others if it was a huge increase) and more about people who have a personal optimization drive and want that small extra challenge once they are used to their rotations to "perfect" things, so it is more about personal enjoyment rather than a mandatory thing.