Positionals

[Payotz]

Let's not kid ourselves and start talking about how "well the tank needs to do xyz and position xyz" when 95% of players do not run with statics and only guild members and even then a lot of aoes in this game spawn at random spots around the boss.

You're basically complaining that a tank actually needs a bare minimum of thought, and that you actually should know the basics of tanking to actually play. I don't agree with this assessment.
There should be MORE instances where the boss needs to be repositioned to do a mechanic, and there should be LESS instances of mechanics being static.

Yes as a tank main and with tank changes in 5.0 the vast majority are terrible and can't even use mitigators let alone position the boss for melee so thats also a huge problem

Uhh, sure the tank changes are terrible because it serverely dumbed down Tank Gameplay as a whole, NOT because you can't use "mitigation". Tank positioning and mitigation are _BASICS_ of Tank Gameplay. Learn it, it's not that hard.

As a caster I can slam everyone and everything from any angle but melee I have to hike around and pick sides?

Yes, cause caster gameplay is literally picking a position on the arena where you can stand still and cast spells. Most of casters doesn't have movement.
Melee gameplay is literally sticking to the boss and moving at an angle. You literally have free movement, no cast times (unless it's a Midare) as long as you're within Melee Range.
We don't talk about Physical Ranged.

Most roles revolve around a core skill that you have to learn in order to play it differently(Physical Ranged used to have one but ehhhhhhh....), and tank is no exception. Learn the basics of the role and enjoy the extra gameplay.

[Arkdra]

When I'm in Eureka or Bozja, I don't miss them at all, so I wouldn't really care if they removed them. But I am also not clamoring for it specifically.

What I will clamor for is for positionals to no longer exist in the open world because it makes the open world tedious. Can keep them in instanced group content though where they at least make some sense.

[ItMe]

What I will clamor for is for positionals to no longer exist in the open world because it makes the open world tedious.

I don't follow.
In what way does it make the open world tedious?
Like... oh no it's awkward to hit positionals on the trash mobs littering the overworld?
I honestly don't see SQEX removing them just from the overworld. Having the class work the same in all content (but PVP) is important. Cutting them while in the overworld doesn't add anything.

[Burningskull]

As someone who use to main melee jobs and plays on controller, and who doesn't savage / ultimate raid, I don't think positionals add much to gameplay. I flick the control stick left or right once every few button presses. There's not much skill in that. The skill comes from memorizing a fight and knowing when the boss is going to turn or jump away or any of that type of stuff. Which you would still need to do even without positionals. I will say that until they remove positionals I wont personally even consider maining something other than Dancer. Unless they really mess up Dancer next expansion.

[Arkdra]

I don't follow.
In what way does it make the open world tedious?
Like... oh no it's awkward to hit positionals on the trash mobs littering the overworld?
I honestly don't see SQEX removing them just from the overworld. Having the class work the same in all content (but PVP) is important. Cutting them while in the overworld doesn't add anything.

Because it's a pointless tax on my damage (and also fun since I play samurai mainly and missing positionals means less kenki) while being out and about in the open world. Or when I grind fates. Ground a lot of fates this last expansion thanks to the bi-color gemstones and you know what sucks? 1-3 manning a boss fate and tanking it as a samurai so I can't hit my positionals (outside of using low blow and true north obviously).

Like I see the value of the positional requirements, they make melee just a little bit spicier than ranged and I can appreciate that. But if I don't have something that can tank for me, then it just sucks out loud.

Although, joke answer, buff the hell out of chocobo enmity generation and that would work too.

[Satarn]

As someone who use to main melee jobs and plays on controller, and who doesn't savage / ultimate raid, I don't think positionals add much to gameplay.

In harder content, you can't just move however you please all the time due to mechanics requiring more precise positioning from everyone. That means if you want to maximize your positionals as a melee DPS, you often need to take them into account while planning your movement and rotation, the tanks need to take them into account while positioning the boss and the group needs to take them into account while planning the strats.

No, removing positionals wouldn't completely cut movement, rotation, positioning and strat planning, but it would remove some depth from them, which many of us consider a loss. It's the same with any other aspect of the game and positionals play a part in many of these aspects. If you remove a part of something, you take away some of the depth with it, which in turn makes it less engaging to many.

Besides, if you don't even do content where dps matters, I don't see why would you be so turned off by positionals being required for best performance - it's not like they will matter at all in the content which you do. You can play a melee while ignoring positionals and perform well enough to clear in any dungeon or normal/alliance raid, even in extremes.

[Undeadfire]

In harder content, you can't just move however you please all the time due to mechanics requiring more precise positioning from everyone. That means if you want to maximize your positionals as a melee DPS, you often need to take them into account while planning your movement and rotation, the tanks need to take them into account while positioning the boss and the group needs to take them into account while planning the strats.

That's how uptime strategies come into fruition and keep an open area on flanks/rears for melee plus True North. They're very hardly used in pugs due to their larger dangers of wiping the group.

[Rilifane]

Ok so before I get started I main a tank and have been leveling a dragoon. Ff14 is based around dodging aoes, boss position aoes, avoiding eye blasts etc etc its all aoes. Positionals are incredibly awkward and bad when the mechanics are based around avoidance. Let's not kid ourselves and start talking about how "well the tank needs to do xyz and position xyz" when 95% of players do not run with statics and only guild members and even then a lot of aoes in this game spawn at random spots around the boss. Take the second boss in dohn mheg for example. As a DRG you have no choice but to eat the lower potency of your abilities regardless of where the tank has him facing because of the tethers. Its a really bad idea for melee to have positionals in a game that clearly doesn't support it. As a caster I can slam everyone and everything from any angle but melee I have to hike around and pick sides? Yes as a tank main and with tank changes in 5.0 the vast majority are terrible and can't even use mitigators let alone position the boss for melee so thats also a huge problem. In big pulls tanks need to jump around aoeing and avoiding aoes so what does that do for melee? Ruins your dps contribution and that effects your whole group. Please get rid of positionals, theyre garbage.

Welcome to DF and leveling content where not every player can play optimally all the time because you have random factors in the form of aoes and mechanics in general and difference in player skill.
So you weren't able to hit a positional on a boss in Don Mheg. It happens. Work on your timing, use True North and if none of that yields better results, just deal with it. And during trash pulls it's not an issue anyway because your aoes don't have positionals.
Should they make Leylines an aura just because a boss in a dungeon once covered my Leylines with an aoe?
Or maybe make the melee combo from RdM ranged because there was this boss that forced someone to disengage during combo?
Make healer bubbles apply a buff instead so nobody can run out of them?
Remove the cast times from SAM so the boss can't be moved out of their melee ranged cast?

Positionals are part of melee gameplay and add another layer, escpecially in difficult content. Don't demand to have every layer and potential difficulty removed just because you don't like it. That one missed positional won't make or break your dps.

[VentVanitas]

It's important to identify in the game what needs to be taken out or tweaked. Positionals is not one of those things. Making so many rotations for a majority of jobs far easier was one of the biggest missteps Shadowbringers made, the last thing we need is the dev team getting the wrong idea and removing even more mechanics that made each role unique.

[ssunny2008]

Who cares about positionals in dungeons that much? Dungeons are a joke. Everyone can do them and you don´t even need any skill or that much equip for them, it´ll just take a bit longer. The classes only have to fit savage and ultimate content, nothing more!

Positionals ARE that one thing which makes melee careers special and actually fun to play. Playing down 1 2 3 as you do as tanks without any need to care about something is boring af. Tanks have to take care for boss positioning and defs atleast, but even that is not that big deal. What would´ve melees left? Yeah, nothing... caster have to care about there positions and casts, because they´ll lose a lot of damage or die if they missplay. Melees would stay there 123, 123, 123, 123 and what else? Noone knows.

If you don´t want to deal with such stuff, go and play physical range. Especially dancer is soooo hard some lightning outlines will show you what to press next. Atleast the dancing mechanic should´ve been like the ninjutsus in some way, but hey, all have to become easier and easier.

And as others said, there is a skill called "true north". It´ll help you to hit 1 of the 3 positional spells of dragoon if you´re not able to move. Btw don´t try monk then please. I don´t want this class to get ruined more and more because players don´t have the will to learn the class and boss mechanics to play positionals properly.